The Mongol Experiment - Report

[Womble67]

Yeah I must echo fsn comments I had absolutely no interest in the mongols as a project. But I aso thought they were wonderful sculptures and would honour anyone's battlefield.

Take care

andy

[fred.]

Its a shame that this proved to be a rather qualified success - mainly due to getting a low conversion of pledges to cash.

I can think of 3 reasons why this might happen

1) Its very easy to make a post saying I'm in for £50. Its rather more of a commitment to go to Paypal and send the money. But both Kickstarted and Indiegogo make you pay at the start. Your money is spent unless the funding target is not made.

2) Changes in circumstances - this happens. But at least a note to Leon to let him know what's up would be polite. (So ryman well done in speaking up)

3) Dislike of the figures - this can happen. There were a number of greens shown, but I think mostly after pledging closed (not certain of the timing of this). Perhaps it is necessary to have a couple of figures on show at the start? Then pledgers have a better idea of what they are getting.


There are quite a few positives though.
The Mongols, and Barbarian's current Indiegogo seem to indicate that raising £2000+ is a very realistic target for a new range. I also don't think either campaign had major promotion, so bigger targets may be possible.
This seems to be enough money to also pay for a decent breadth to a range, in both sculpting and moulding.
Pendraken have a new range of figures - that can be sold for many years, with nearly all the development costs already paid for. I suspect with cash being king, having a future income stream perhaps isn't great news.

A couple of general comments.
I can understand sakura's views on the cavalry. Personally I think the horses are small - but look about the right size for the type of horse they are meant to be. I also think the riders are too small - but I also understand Techno and Clib's points about having to get the overall look right, even if this compromises on keeping everything absolutely to scale. Looking at photos of mongols on their horses - they look quite ridiculous to our eyes, being so used to big western horses. So I think miniatures of riders strictly in scale would have looked wrong.

I would be happy to pledge up front. But I think in general using one of the established platforms (Kickstarter / indiegogo )for this would be better, as a wider range of people will have more trust in this as a process. Those of us who post regularly here have a well founded trust of Pendraken. But if you want to reach a wider audience then it is better to offer them something established.

Chariot Wars - no thanks.

[sakura]

many thanks for the more measured response this time to my views  ( i have amore than passing academic and personal reason for wanting mongols!!!)
marmite sums it up and the friends i have shown the figures too agree that i have apoint
as to the 3 ups it is hard to judge size overall
i guess having got the loa figures which set a new standard imho i was expecting similar size putting down my fpw sculpts and winged hussars as being just old and hence small
oriental size is aproblem
i have 28mm samurai the same size as 28mm europeans  to me that is the way to go
as i said before i am over 6ft but in northern china i was above average but just
most chinese in uk come from south where on average height is less
if anyone wants the 20 packs and freebies  i have (still have 9 to buy to honour my pledge) b4 ebay let me know
cheers

[Matt J]

I can understand sakura's views on the cavalry. Personally I think the horses are small - but look about the right size for the type of horse they are meant to be. I also think the riders are too small - but I also understand Techno and Clib's points about having to get the overall look right, even if this compromises on keeping everything absolutely to scale. Looking at photos of mongols on their horses - they look quite ridiculous to our eyes, being so used to big western horses. So I think miniatures of riders strictly in scale would have looked wrong.

The size did really bug me when I received my order. I'm painting a few for the comp at the mo and when finished the size disparity does seem less. Maybe in hindsight they would've been better on standard horses. I think the smaller horses forced Phil's hand somewhat. Barded horses would also be nice 

(still have 9 to buy to honour my pledge)

That's seems a waste why not just order something of similar value you want. Otherwise you lose out and Leon loses out because someone wanting Mongols will just buy yours = lost sale for Leon.

[sakura]

thanks again for the suggestion
my idea was to make sure leon didnt lose out
i would be happy to do so but would still be left with the figs i have to go on ebay
any money i recouped would be spent on figs and i would lose 25 quid or so
i am most glad to see that some people do see my point about size and so far havent felt the need to be sarcastic
restored my faith

[Orcs]

Ryman,


Good to see you back.

My comments were not aimed at you or anyone else who has had similar difficulties. These things happen.

[Genom]

I'm not sure the smaller size is that much of an issue, Yes they are smaller, but compared to themselves they are fine and when set up against an opposing army that is a bit bigger (Arabs in my case atm) they still look okay as the army itself is uniform enough in size, it'd only be if you were mixing manufacturers with the range that you may encounter problems.

[get2grips]

I have everything from small 10mm minis to big 10mm minis and even some (Kallistra) which are nearer 12mm; the difference in size is hardly noticeable at all on the battlefield.

The bigger issue here is that people have pledged and then failed to honour that pledge.  In addition, as far as I can ascertain from Leon's honest, restrained and gentlemanly comments, these people haven't had the good grace to email him or Dave to explain their position.

I realise there will be exceptions to the above and to those people, who have handled this honestly and honourably, I mean you no disrespect.

On a more positive note, I think the minis are a brilliant representation of Mongols and can't wait to start the army in earnest.

[TinyTerrain]

here here Mr. Grips

[Leon]

Thanks for all the comments and feedback, it's really appreciated.  I'm glad that folk have been able to discuss the pro's and con's as well without it getting personal.

At this end, we were never expecting to get the full amount of pledged income, as there are so many reasons why folk might not have the money/interest by the time the figures were ready.  A note to say they couldn't fulfill the order would be nice, but again people are busy and we understand that. 

Some of the suggestions for 'Non-KS Mk II' are very good as well.  This one was always going to be the guinea pig, where we just tested the water to see how well the method worked.  If we were going to do another one, we'd have some sculpts to show off first, plus we'd have a higher goal, more extensive promotion, and the upfront deposit discussed earlier.  The real discussion point there is what to do next?!  (Techno will be doing Biblical stuff anyway, so I don't know if that's worth doing).

One final point to reiterate though:  If we hadn't done the Non-KS, then we'd now be £1800 down praying for some strong sales on release.  As it stands, we've already got £1200 of sales and we've got a full range in production, ready for release this week sometime.  I'm fairly certain that we can make that money back in the coming months and have a profitable range in a short period of time.

[get2grips]

Techno will be doing Biblical stuff anyway

Feeding the 5,000?
Making the blind see?
Combing his hair?

[Fenton]

Well from his latest weather reports...Parting the Red Sea might be closer to the mark

[Techno]

Combing his hair?

Are there any tutorials on the net showing how to do that ?
Does it mean I'll have to go and buy 'a comb' ? (Whatever that is........Thought it was what chickens had on the top of their heads.)

Well from his latest weather reports...Parting the Red Sea might be closer to the mark

Yes......I'm SO looking forward to tomorrow.....The annoying thing is, that I was hoping to get out with the watering can and give some of the plants a much needed drink.
Cheers - Mr Scruffy

[fsn]

So, when we say 'Biblical' ... do we include perhaps Myceneans in Dendra armour?

I need a proxy for Daleks. 

[Steve J]

The real discussion point there is what to do next?!

Initial thoughts are:

- What gaps do you have in an already pretty comprehensive range?
- Will they be fairly niche (Falklands & Aztecs etc) or more mainstream (say Cold War forces)?
- Will you use it to re-do a range with added stuff that was missing first time around?

Personally I would like the following:

- Polish army for 1939.
- It is mainstream and the big gap missing in your WWII range.
- As vehicles already exist with Pithead, you could just concentrate on the infantry to lessen the risk.
- Even though a mainstream army for a major conflict, it could be argued that it is still rather niche. But then we have the Finns, which are even more so IMHO.

Just some thoughts to kick off a few more ideas (hopefully) from other forum members...