New to painting Napoleonics

[henjed]

Hello - I know I am about to ask a question which doesn't have a single answer, but I am keen to know the thoughts of those who are veteran in the field of painting the sort of miniatures which have colourful and intricate uniforms (having spent my last 10 years or so painting WW1, WW2 and post-WW2 figures only, and most in 10mm).

I recently bought some 20mm Napoleonics figures (French and Russian, 1812) - painting 28mm figures with the level of detail that scale seems to require scares the living daylights out of me - and I am faced with a more challenging job of painting than I have before faced.

The first question I need to ask is what colour base-coat/primer I should use.  I used to use black and then moved to a mid-brown for my WW1/WW2 figures; but I have noted from quite a few videos on Mr YouTube's Magic Channels that there appears to be a preponderance of voices suggesting white or light grey for Napoleonics/7YW &c.,,  However, one or two persuasive voices suggest black followed by an over/dry-brush of white or light grey

What do you chaps and chapesses suggest?  My level of painting skills is fair-to-middling, and I am not seeking an exhibition level demonstration of my modest prowess but rather something that shows up the colours and details *well enough*.

I remain yours, &c.,

[fred.]

I've not painted a lot of Naps - generally seem to have avoided that era for earlier and later periods. But I did paint up some forces for Sharp Practice using Pendraken 10mm figures. 

I'd definitely favour a white or light grey base coat - I find this much easier to paint over, either using contrast paints or just thinned paints. And with many Naps figures you have white trousers and waistcoats and cross belts, so this is a lot of the visible surface of the figure, so feels a lot easier to start these parts close to the end result. 

Good painters can make black undercoat work, but in my experience it needs a lot more coats of paint to give a good final strong colour. And I don't have patience for this for armies. Some people very much like the black lining style - and if you do like this then starting with black makes a lot of sense. 

[henjed]

Yes, that chimes with what I've heard, but the point you make about the potential pitfalls of dry-brushing white over black is noted.

I too am heading for Sharp Practice with these figures - and I have a few spares over and above the units I am putting together, so I may do a little experimentation first.  I am not terribly au fait with express or contrast paints, and am likely to stick with basic Vallejo paints, unless I pluck up the courage to experiment there too.

Southport, eh? I used to manage the branch of Oddbins on Lord Street (1990-1992). My glory days.

[sultanbev]

Southport's best export - Fag Ash Lil rock band 

Regarding painting Napoleonics, are you a traditional block painter or do you use these new-fangled trendy washes and dry brushing thingamajigs?

If the former, a black undercoat is fine, as if you miss anything it will stand out - an undercoat should seal the entire figure - and when applying the colours on top if you miss a bit of colour it will then just become shadow which won't show.

The other question is, are your 20mm figures bendy plastic like HAT/Airfix/etc, or metal?

Mark

[jimduncanuk]

If your figures have a white pair of pants then basecoat all over with white.

If your figures have a grey pair of pants then basecoat all over with grey.

Jacket colour, flesh on flesh, brown/metal on musket, black on hat are all fairly standard. Facing colour and plumes are a bonus.

Get the troops on the table.

Jim

[hammurabi70]

Regarding painting Napoleonics, are you a traditional block painter or do you use these new-fangled trendy washes and dry brushing thingamajigs?

What are these?  I do not understand this.  Would this be pertinent to my 2mm figures?

[fsn]

Hmmm.

Just to be me, I'll say it depends on what I'm painting. If it was say the 96th Rifles, I'd go black. If it were Austrian Grenadier, I'd go for a pale brown/yellow - a warm colour rather than a cold grey.

  Think it depends if I'm going to paint a lot of white. My 1813 French were pale undercoat (Bone White from memory), but the 1810 Hesse-Darmstadt were black. 

What Jimduncanuk  said.

[henjed]

Well I'm a traditional block painter, insofar as I can say I belong to any school (and thus I am ignorant of the potential benefits of these trendy new paints).

The figures are Newline (metals) and both sides will have white (or off-white) trousers/breeches.

I think I may experiment this weekend with my spare figures.

[fred.]

Southport, eh? I used to manage the branch of Oddbins on Lord Street (1990-1992). My glory days.

A long time before I lived in Southport - think I was in London then. 'Only' been on the wet west coast for 15 years or so. 

[steve_holmes_11]

Undercoat on metal.

I reach for my rattlecan of spray paint.
But since temperatures just dropped below freezing, that can wait for warmer weather.

I find Grey works best with my eyes, I use Halfords grey primer (intended for car resprays).
Grey highlights the figure detail in good light.
By contrast I find a white undercoat creates dazzle while black is just a dark blob - neither allow me to see the details I need when painting.

Some people report good results from a white undercoat followed by a darker dip, which sinks into and enhances all the detail.
I can imagine this works well unless the dip dries glossy ad repels later coats of paint.

The other problem I've experienced with black undercoat is getting the top coats to properly shine.
Some paints cover really well, but others aren't particularly opaque, and won't cover the underlying black.
Yellows and oranges are notorious for weak coverage.

Another option (depending on your funds) is to find a primer that matches a main colour of your troops.
A blue for your Prussians and French, a Green for your Russians and a Brown for most of your horses.

Pendraken now stock a range of coloured spray primers: https://www.pendraken.co.uk/sprays-colour-forge

[paulr]

I use a mid grey undercoat and once painted wash with a very diluted black wash and finish with a dusty dry dry dry brush highlight

I find lighter undercoats give brighter colours and the black wash gives suitable shading

I strongly endorse your suggested experimentation, far better to work out what works for you on a handful of figures than realising halfway through a unit it's not working

Decide during your experiments what level of detail you find pleasing

I don't use black or white instead I use a very dark grey or ivory (except on very small details)

[henjed]

Thanks for the useful responses.  Much food for thought (and for use).

Paulr, when you say "a dusty dry dry dry brush highlight", is that with a grey or other colour paint?

[Big Insect]

With figures that are 'mostly' wearing cloth - I tend to go for a white matt spray undercoat - sometimes a light/mid (German armour) grey, but I find painting onto white is cleaner. I paint mostly either large 28mm or 15mm, with less 10mm and 6mm is my micro-armour scale.

My 'methodology' is as follows:

1) clean up and excess flash or casting sprue 'stubs' with a sharp modelling knife and mount on large coins or discs individually (with cheap glue like UHU) - I use UK 2 pence pieces. It helps to hold the figure.

2) always wash your figures in a very weak solution of washing up liquid and warm water - to clean off any residue casting release agent - make sure they are thoroughly dry before undercoating

3) spray with a white matt undercoat evenly and allow to dry thoroughly - I always allow overnight where possible. A white undercoat will favour a more cloth covered figure and this 'white-up' approach is a good way to start engaging with figure painting as it is more forgiving of mistakes. But as Steve says - avoid cold or damp weather or the undercoat produces a beautiful crackle-glaze effect!

4) make up a very thin wash of either Black or Burnt Umber and carefully brush each figure all over, and leave to dry. This will help pick out all the detail and allow you to see what needs painting in what order.

5) I have learnt to paint in what is called the 'inside-out' method. I start with the visible human flesh - so with Napolionics this will be faces and necks and hands; then I move on to the next layer outwards on the figure - the shirt and hair, stockings and shoes; then coats and breaches and hats; then the cross-belts, ammo pouches etc, and then finally the weapons and plumes etc. The Black or Burnt Umber wash can be left in certain areas as shadows. Coloured cuffs and turn-backs, gold, brass or silver (pewter) buttons and buckles are the last thing to be painted.

6) I use a layered wash approach for the main colours - so if a jacket is red - it mix up a coat of red paint that is diluted c.50% with water, I then work into the creases and shadow areas using less water and more paint. With a final darkest coat that goes into the deep creases or around back-packs or under arm pits etc. Obviously, let each coat dry before painting over it and also make sure the washes are well mixed all the time. NB: with 28mm I tend to paint no more than 8-12 figures at a time. It stops it becoming overwhelming & dull.

7) for the flesh I paint the area with a dark flesh colour 1st, then dry-brush over a mid-tone and then use a  lighter one to catch the highlights (forehead, nose, cheeks, chin, knuckles & fingers); and finally I use a Games Workshop 'flesh wash' and carefully run that around where the hands go into the cuffs or necks into shirts to add some depth. NB: I use the same technique for painting (brown) horses, but use a chestnut wash as the final coat in the deepest shadow areas.

The white-up approach works equally well for horses and equipment - such as artillery & wagons etc.
But you need to be bold and decisive - if you make a mistake and accidentally paint an area in the wrong colour, you can rectify that by over painting the area carefully with white paint again. But you are not trying to completely block an area in deep colour. This technique makes the cloth look fluid. For white gaiters I will paint the larger areas with a very light brown and then paint white on top, so the Umber wash and the light brown provide a dusty appearance.

Again, this is just a thought - you'll no doubt have your own ideas and style.

The Wargames Foundry website used to have a number of really good painting guides, written by a professional figure painter called Kevin Dallemore. Whilst they were designed to promote the Foundry 3 colour tone painting sets (which, whilst they are expensive I have always found to be very reliable) I think the guides were available for free. I think Kevin may have even done some uTube tutorials, which might be worth trying to track down.

NB: I tend to use the Foundry 3 tone system for things like: Flesh (& they sell the Flesh ranges in a variety of human tones - I used the African tone on some Nubian/Sudanese mercenary troops for my Ptolemaic and it was fantastic); or spear-shaft wood tones, or leather. Things I use regularly and across a lot of periods. I have used their 'uniform' colours as well and found the British Scarlet pack very helpful in painting my Opium Wars British. But many painters hate them as they see them as 'cheating'. But I value to consistency personally.

But hopefully it will be a fun project for you.
Cheers
Mark

[Big Insect]

I did a bit of a search and found this link to one of Kevin's painting guides - for the Frostgrave 'fantasy/role-play' game figures:
https://nstarmagazine.com/PDFS/PAINTING%20FROSTGRAVE%20Necromancers.pdf?fbclid=IwAR03D5GBNLKISN2D1PRLgJRK-Dvlyz1SBN9VhlfjGnJ61VT4-pABsJPkVZo

Not Napoleonic's but plenty of useful tips and ideas that can be transferred, although I'd forgotten that Kevin uses a 'black-up' technique.

I'll do some more searching.

[Big Insect]

Another KD 'how to paint' PDF free download (EIRs legionaries this time): https://nstarmagazine.com/PDFS/PAINTING%20FROSTGRAVE%20Necromancers.pdf?fbclid=IwAR03D5GBNLKISN2D1PRLgJRK-Dvlyz1SBN9VhlfjGnJ61VT4-pABsJPkVZo

Apparently KD has written a very extensive and well reviewed book on how to paint figures - that might also be worth tracking down.