British built 6 pdr Mk4, on a Mk 3(Airborne) carriage

[Pruneau]

Hiya,

I almost finished a US 57 mm AT gun (based on the British 6 pounder), but now I'd like to make another one exactly like used by the 101st airborne, with a special carriage that fits into Horsa glider.  Anyone has done this or knows exactly how this modified carriage is supposed to look?

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_6_pounder:


The Airborne Command had rejected the 57 mm M1 in the summer of 1943 claiming its was unfit for airlanding by glider due to weight and the TO&E of February 1944 still had airborne divisions keeping their 37 mm guns. Nevertheless, the 82nd and the 101st airborne divisions were reequipped with British-manufactured 6 pounders on the narrow carriage Mk III designed for glider use - 24 in AA battalion, and 9 in glider infantry regiment - for the Normandy airdrops. Subsequently the guns were officially introduced under the TO&E from December 1944. According to the TO&E, a division was issued a total of 50 pieces: 8 in divisional artillery, 24 in AA battalion, and 18 in glider infantry regiment; parachute infantry regiments did not have anti-tank guns. The British guns were referred simply as 57 mm guns.

In the fighting after the Normandy landings the paratroops used them against German armour near St Mere Eglise and Carentan. However few tanks were encountered and they were mostly used for support which made the shortage of HE shell more significant. From July, US anti-tank units encountered the Panther tank which was only vulnerable to the 57 mm from the sides. Towed anti-tank guns were less effective in the hedgerow terrain where mobility suffered but when the Germans went on the offensive in August they were effective in defence with infantry. Towards the end of the war, towed anti-tank units were out of favour due to their lack of mobility compared to self-propelled guns and the 57mm was used by infantry battalions. However with few tanks to contend with some units that would have been equipped with the 57mm were instead deployed as rifle companies or only with the Bazooka.

[NTM]

Have a look at this thread on CDTOB forum.

http://www.testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3271&sid=a79f1cc0fb7153412cfdaf0a1efafcac

Basically you need to cut down the lower shield and narrow the axle.

[Pruneau]

Excellent, exactly what I was looking for, NTM!  Time to take out the Dremel

[OldenBUA]

Basically you need to cut down the lower shield and narrow the axle.

You also need to modify the main shield a bit, there should be a square gap so the wheels will fit right under it. That's something that's lacking from the gun in the picture on page 2 of that thread.

@Pruneau, keyboard bought from 'Down Under' I guess? 

[fred.]

Does this help:



Couple more photos that i took at Duxford are in the web album as well
https://picasaweb.google.com/fred12df/IWMDuxford2010?feat=directlink

[Pruneau]

You also need to modify the main shield a bit, there should be a square gap so the wheels will fit right under it. That's something that's lacking from the gun in the picture on page 2 of that thread.

@Pruneau, keyboard bought from 'Down Under' I guess? 

Yessir! 

Does this help:
(image snipped)
Couple more photos that i took at Duxford are in the web album as well
https://picasaweb.google.com/fred12df/IWMDuxford2010?feat=directlink

Yes, excellent as well!  That makes it perfectly clear!  Gonna start on that one right away - permission pending    Checking out the Duxford pix now.

[The_Shootist]

That cant be an airborne 6Pdr it has the forward gun shield still fitted, this was removed on the airborne version.

here is the correct version

http://www.lothianpra.webspace.virginmedia.com/veteran2.htm

[fred.]

That cant be an airborne 6Pdr it has the forward gun shield still fitted, this was removed on the airborne version.

So at the new Airborne Forces museum at IWM Duxford they have the wrong weapon hanging outside. I'm pretty sure the jeep is the right version, it looked to have the right bits removed.

[Pruneau]

It would also mean that Bolt Action, Artizan and a lot of others are wrong, it seems.  I found this picture after some serious searching:



It does have to be the British 6 pdr though, if I understand correctly, on the Mk 3 carriage, because the US made 57 mm is too heavy?  I thought it was the same gun.

[OldenBUA]

It does have to be the British 6 pdr though, if I understand correctly, on the Mk 3 carriage, because the US made 57 mm is too heavy?  I thought it was the same gun.

The 57mm M1 is an American built copy of the British 6pdr gun. As such there are only some minor differences between the two. The 6pdr gun on the airbourne (Mk 3) carriage is different, as pointed out before. The main problem isn't weight, but that the normal carriage is too wide for the Horsa glider fuselage.

The pictures that you found seem to match the Mk 3 carriage completely: Shortened axle, no fixed lower shield, modified main shield and a join in the centre of the trail legs.

The gun in the Duxford museum seems to lack a number of these features, but maybe this is a somewhat later variant? It doesn't look exactly like a standard 6pdr too. It has a square type shield in front of the 'wavy' shield, for a start.

[The_Shootist]

So at the new Airborne Forces museum at IWM Duxford they have the wrong weapon hanging outside. I'm pretty sure the jeep is the right version, it looked to have the right bits removed.

The airborne museum once told me that the airborne forces never used the 4.2" mortar. Yet 6th Airborne did with the airborne armoured recce Regiment.

As far as jeep mods go i have a listing off all mods, but you can alos get a great book from groucho publishing on this?