Questions about the Napoleonic Line

[Battleback]

Hello, I'm very new to Napoleonics Wargaming and I'm thinking of using either 6mm or 10mm miniatures to play with Lasalle 2. Which requires 4 bases per unit, so I'm thinking of 40mm x 30mm if I go with 10mm.

But my questions are if I wanted to game the 100 days battles which French line of Pendraken miniatures what do I use? I assume the minis from the 1812 range but I'm sure there are missing figures because it's not extensive as Pendraken's 1809 line. Can minis from the 1809 French work for 1815.

Sorry if it's a dumb question but I have very little knowledge of Napoleonics uniforms etc.

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[Westmarcher]

I suspect 40mm is too wide (unless you are aiming for very large figure heavy units). In the Lasalle rules, it states your artillery bases should ideally be as wide as your infantry or cavalry bases. In 10mm scale, this means that your bases need only be around 25mm to 30mm wide. Assuming you're going for an upright pose like March Attack, you should be able to fit 8 infantry figures in 2 ranks or 3 cavalry in one rank on a 25mm deep base. In 1812, French uniform changes were simplified under the Bardin regulations and so are more appropriate for 1815. There are many differences in uniform detail between 1809 and 1815 but, heh, it's 10mm so who is going to mind? Of course, after 1812 the French flags changed ....

[Battleback]

I suspect 40mm is too wide (unless you are aiming for very large figure heavy units). In the Lasalle rules, it states your artillery bases should ideally be as wide as your infantry or cavalry bases. In 10mm scale, this means that your bases need only be around 25mm to 30mm wide. Assuming you're going for an upright pose like March Attack, you should be able to fit 8 infantry figures in 2 ranks or 3 cavalry in one rank on a 25mm deep base. In 1812, French uniform changes were simplified under the Bardin regulations and so are more appropriate for 1815. There are many differences in uniform detail between 1809 and 1815 but, heh, it's 10mm so who is going to mind? Of course, after 1812 the French flags changed ....

Thanks for the information! I suppose your right at 10mm it's not too big of a deal, I just didn't want my figures to look completely wrong.

Basing is always a hard decision for me, part of me what's to go with 40mm frontage to get that great mass look, but the other half keeps saying that's just more work and 25mm or 30mm will work just fine and I might actually finish the project in a timely manner. I suppose smaller bases will be more flexible for other napoleonics rules as well?

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[Battleback]

Also I'm still not sure I want to build for the 100 days campaign. I recently read "The Long Weekend" about the KGL at La Haye Sainte and was excited to see Pendraken had the figures.

But the Austrian/French conflicts in 1809 also is appealing. Austria seems to have some cool figures and allies. And then of course the Russian front in 1812 is another interest and I love playing with artillery.

It's lots of fun learning about the period though and I'm eager to play some games!

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[KeithS]

I am in much the same position as you in that the new LaSalle 2 rules have inspired me to build a 10mm Napoleonic force, although I am going for French and Austrian 1809 forces to start with rather than 1815,  In the LaSalle 2 rules it says that you should aim for a table of 6 x 4 squares, and each square should be approximately 6 x 6 base widths. So assuming a base width of 4cm a square would be 24cm along a side and the table would be 144cm x 96cm roughly 5' x 3' give or take.  So 4x3cm bases should be fine and it is what I am going for myself, however since I am restricted in table space I am assuming a game base width of 3cm even though the physical base width is 4cm.  I think this will still work, allowing me to have a fair number of figures per battalion, as I am going to try for 10 figures (2 rows of 5) per infantry base and 4 per cavalry base, while allowing a roughly 4' x 2 1/2' table.

[KeithS]

On the uniform front, as was pointed out previously with the 10mm scale minor uniform differences are barely visible on the tabletop, and in any case my painting skills are pretty stretched to represent even fairly major variants let alone relatively small ones.  So as long as the figures are more or less correct then that will be sufficient for me.  If you really want to be strict about the absolutely correct uniforms you will either end up spending a small fortune to purchase entire armies to represent just a few years of the period, not to mention the required extra painting time.  Another thing to bear in mind is that uniform changes didn’t happen overnight but would be rolled out over the whole army in the course of several years, and even then individual regiments would have their own variants of standard issue.  For example I was reading some that line grenadier units would hang on to their bearskins for many years after they should have been replaced by shakos.  So I am planning to use the 1809 French figures from the Austrian campaigns, through Russia and the Peninsular wars ( when Pendraken release their Peninsular ranges) and even for the 100 days campaign.  Not really a problem for me as I will almost certainly be playing mostly solo, and if I do come across someone who is bothered by the slight anachronism then they can always find another opponent.

[Battleback]

I am in much the same position as you in that the new LaSalle 2 rules have inspired me to build a 10mm Napoleonic force, although I am going for French and Austrian 1809 forces to start with rather than 1815,  In the LaSalle 2 rules it says that you should aim for a table of 6 x 4 squares, and each square should be approximately 6 x 6 base widths. So assuming a base width of 4cm a square would be 24cm along a side and the table would be 144cm x 96cm roughly 5' x 3' give or take.  So 4x3cm bases should be fine and it is what I am going for myself, however since I am restricted in table space I am assuming a game base width of 3cm even though the physical base width is 4cm.  I think this will still work, allowing me to have a fair number of figures per battalion, as I am going to try for 10 figures (2 rows of 5) per infantry base and 4 per cavalry base, while allowing a roughly 4' x 2 1/2' table.

If I go for 4cm x 3cm bases that is the way I plan to base them too, although I'm kicking around the idea of having a few skirmishers up front on some bases and a partial 3rd rank on a few to mix it up little. But I'm not sure if that is a good idea or not, it might look odd in other formations besides mass. 2 ranks of 5 on 4cm wide bases do look nice from the few pictures I've seen online with 10mm figures!

On the uniform front, as was pointed out previously with the 10mm scale minor uniform differences are barely visible on the tabletop, and in any case my painting skills are pretty stretched to represent even fairly major variants let alone relatively small ones.  So as long as the figures are more or less correct then that will be sufficient for me.  If you really want to be strict about the absolutely correct uniforms you will either end up spending a small fortune to purchase entire armies to represent just a few years of the period, not to mention the required extra painting time.  Another thing to bear in mind is that uniform changes didn't happen overnight but would be rolled out over the whole army in the course of several years, and even then individual regiments would have their own variants of standard issue.  For example I was reading some that line grenadier units would hang on to their bearskins for many years after they should have been replaced by shakos.  So I am planning to use the 1809 French figures from the Austrian campaigns, through Russia and the Peninsular wars ( when Pendraken release their Peninsular ranges) and even for the 100 days campaign.  Not really a problem for me as I will almost certainly be playing mostly solo, and if I do come across someone who is bothered by the slight anachronism then they can always find another opponent.

I like your plan of starting with 1809 Austrian campaigns, then Russia and then the Peninsular wars; I might steal that
I guess I shouldn't sweat the uniform thing either, the group I play with isn't really interested in Napoleonic's so nobody's going to notice or care if something isn't right. I'm hoping to get them interested in naps by showing them Blucher, and if that works I'll introduce them to Lasalle 2. I can just use the cards for Blucher so it's not a huge investment, but if they don't like it, I'll just build for solo and to play with my son from time to time.    

[KeithS]

Actually, I misspoke (it was quite late when I replied) I am going for 4x2cm bases rather than 4x3cm at least for infantry and cavalry, I will probably use 4x3cm for artillery.  This means I will either have 2 rows of 4 or 5 (probably 5) infantry per base with no room for skirmishers on the base.  If you do go 4x3cm you definitely could have a few skirmishers up front although you would need them on every base so as not to look unbalanced in line, which in turn might look a bit strange in column, although I quite like the idea of a loose 3rd rank which may or may not work in column, perhaps put some NCO or musician figures in the third rank.  Although Lasalle 2 doesn't require skirmish bases I am thinking of putting some voltigeurs in firing position on separate bases just to put in front of the battalions as skirmish markers although they play no direct role in the game as skirmish is abstracted into the general contact calculations.  TBH I have spent far too much time fretting about the battalion organisation, the basic problem is that on organisation of equal sized companies of 1 grenadier, 1 voltigeur, and 4 fusiliers (I do want to represent all 4 colours of pompoms) plus command figures doesn't fit nicely onto 4 bases.  In the end I have decided on (going from right to left in line) 1base of 8 grenadiers and a mounted colonel, 1 base of 8 fusiliers (1st & 2nd companies) with standard bearer and sergeant to the left, 1 base of 8 fusiliers (3rd & 4th companies) with officer and drummer to the right, and 1 base of 8 voltigeurs with a foot officer.  I think that this would look more or less OK in line even if the numbers are a bit unbalanced.  In column I would have the grenadiers to the front, followed by the 2 bases of fusiliers and the voltigeurs at the rear.  I would probably put one of the bases of voltigeurs in skirmish mode at the front, and may or may not remove the rear base of voltigeurs if I do this, depending on the look of the thing.  As I say I have seriously over thought this, I guess I just have too much time on my hands. 

Anyway good luck with the whole project, and I hope that the painting goes well.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

You might find the cavalry need 40x30. I get 10 anceinet (Early Persian) figuers in 2 ranks on 40x20

[Battleback]

Actually, I misspoke (it was quite late when I replied) I am going for 4x2cm bases rather than 4x3cm at least for infantry and cavalry, I will probably use 4x3cm for artillery.  This means I will either have 2 rows of 4 or 5 (probably 5) infantry per base with no room for skirmishers on the base.  If you do go 4x3cm you definitely could have a few skirmishers up front although you would need them on every base so as not to look unbalanced in line, which in turn might look a bit strange in column, although I quite like the idea of a loose 3rd rank which may or may not work in column, perhaps put some NCO or musician figures in the third rank.  Although Lasalle 2 doesn't require skirmish bases I am thinking of putting some voltigeurs in firing position on separate bases just to put in front of the battalions as skirmish markers although they play no direct role in the game as skirmish is abstracted into the general contact calculations.  TBH I have spent far too much time fretting about the battalion organisation, the basic problem is that on organisation of equal sized companies of 1 grenadier, 1 voltigeur, and 4 fusiliers (I do want to represent all 4 colours of pompoms) plus command figures doesn't fit nicely onto 4 bases.  In the end I have decided on (going from right to left in line) 1base of 8 grenadiers and a mounted colonel, 1 base of 8 fusiliers (1st & 2nd companies) with standard bearer and sergeant to the left, 1 base of 8 fusiliers (3rd & 4th companies) with officer and drummer to the right, and 1 base of 8 voltigeurs with a foot officer.  I think that this would look more or less OK in line even if the numbers are a bit unbalanced.  In column I would have the grenadiers to the front, followed by the 2 bases of fusiliers and the voltigeurs at the rear.  I would probably put one of the bases of voltigeurs in skirmish mode at the front, and may or may not remove the rear base of voltigeurs if I do this, depending on the look of the thing.  As I say I have seriously over thought this, I guess I just have too much time on my hands. 

Anyway good luck with the whole project, and I hope that the painting goes well.

Yeah you have put thought into your basing, I'll have to come back and look over your post when I start basing, lots of good ideas!

What is your plan for Lasalle's cards? Are you going to use them or are you going to use a roster? I haven't decided which route to go myself yet.

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[KeithS]

My inclination is to go for a roster, I am a bit old school and having gone to some trouble to do nice paint jobs on the figures it goes a little against the grain to attach card labels to each unit and a roster isn’t much (if any) more effort to keep updated than a load of individual cards.  Mind you I am not entirely consistent as I plan to use fairly stylised semi-2d terrain, with contoured hills, and some terrain features such as trees just printed on terrain squares for a top down effect.  The reason for this is that I don’t have much space for storing realistic 3D terrain, plus trees on a wargame table drive me mad, you either have to have so few that you might as well not have them at all, or they are constantly getting in the way and need moving.

Anyway, I digress, due to the sort of terrain I am using i suppose it is a bit inconsistent to be overly worried about the look of the unit cards, but there doesn’t seem to be any real overhead to using a roster and you can either remember which unit is which or if necessary you can put a code on the underside of the bases as is suggested in the rules .  I am also thinking of maybe writing an app to keep track of things as a sort of online roster and it could possibly be used for some of the more complicated calculations for casualties and the like.  However, whether I get round to doing that remains to be seen.

[John Cook]

Also I'm still not sure I want to build for the 100 days campaign. I recently read "The Long Weekend" about the KGL at La Haye Sainte and was excited to see Pendraken had the figures.

But the Austrian/French conflicts in 1809 also is appealing. Austria seems to have some cool figures and allies. And then of course the Russian front in 1812 is another interest and I love playing with artillery.

It's lots of fun learning about the period though and I'm eager to play some games!

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Why go for Waterloo?  You will have to compromise as far as the uniforms' style is concerned.  If you wait a little longer the Peninsular range will be out.  The French 1809 range is perfect for that. 

[Westmarcher]

To give you an idea of how Pendraken figures can fit on different base sizes, here's a link to a recent topic started by Smithy which illustrates his basing system for his Napoleonics (don't know what rules he uses but his infantry are based on 20 x 20 bases and cavalry, 30 x 30):-

http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,20739.msg323390.html#msg323390

There's also many examples of basing in this year's Painting Competition threads - well worth a look. For example, with the 1812 Moscow French Napoleonic range looking very similar in figure style to the Seven Years War range (same sculptor?), here's two links to my own basing for SYW to let you see how both cavalry and infantry can fit on 25 x 25 bases:-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156736924@N08/50949163781/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156736924@N08/50949262707/

On roster sheets, I've found these to be very easy and effective to use. Only downside is if your opponent is not competent to mark them up properly. I used a simple sticky label with a simple written code (e.g., BL1 = British Line Infantry #1) attached to the underside of the command base.   

[Shecky]

If you look closely you might be able to see French 1809 and 1812 figures in the picture.






I can't tell right away but I know there are probably some 1812 French in there since I've bought and painted from both ranges.  These are on 30x30 mm stands - 8 infantry/ 3 cavalry to a stand.  Based for Et Sans Resultat.

[KeithS]

Just completed my first French line battalion.  I have 1 base of 6 grenadiers with a mounted officer, 2 bases of 6 fusiliers with 2 command figures (sergeant and standard bearer; and drummer and officer respectively) and 7 voltigeurs with an officer on 4x2cm stands.  If necessary the voltigeurs can be replaced by one or more stands with them in skirmish order, although this isn't required in the LaSalle rules. It think this arrangement works reasonably well for line and column and with such low figure counts square is never going to look right.  I have rather too many voltigeurs, but what the heck there is only so much that you can do with 4 bases. Apologies for the rubbish picture quality they were taken on my mobile.