Sudan 1880 & 90s

[paulr]

I'm considering a new project, Sudan at the end of the 19th century

Can anyone point me at any good online sources?

At the moment I'm looking for orders of battle, including numbers and information of weapons used, particularly rifles types.

I assume all the British used Martini Henry rifles or similar but what about the Egyptians, Sudanese and Mahdi's forces...

[Maenoferren]

Egyptians were using the Remington 0.433 rolling block rifle until 1885. The Mhadists got an awful lot of them after the the early Egyptian defeats. They also captured a lot of Krupp artillery and other nasty stuff.
As for online resources I am away South until Friday so can't access my links back home. What Order of battle are you after?

[paulr]

Thanks for the prompt response Maenoferren

So the Remington 0.433 rolling block rifle was a cartridge weapon with similar performance to the Martini Henry, was anyone still using muzzle loaded weapons?

I'm at the very beginning of this potential project so I'm not sure what I need

I'm looking for orders of battles to get a feel for the size of the "typical" battles and also to confirm the typical strengths of units

My initial thoughts are to use Volley & Bayonet at the Battalion scale (each stand being a battalion 400-600 men and larger Mahdist units of 600-1200 men)

I'm attracted by the asymmetrical forces and the variety of troop types within each side

I'm open to suggestions for other Colonial conflicts as well

[Maenoferren]

Regarding other conflicts I prefer the Sudan to say the Zulu wars as for me there are lots of different ' native' troop types. Go strong into the desert (  Col Snook the Perry book) has orders for battle fro the early battles up to the fall of Khartoum.  Snook's 'Beyond the Reach of Empire looks at the desert column  battles. Also the  Black Powder supplement gives most battles too.

[paulr]

I have very similar thoughts about the Zulu wars, the Zulu's would be very one dimensional

The terrain for the Afghan wars would be more challenging than Sudan

I'm looking for Internet resources until I have made up my mind

[Sandinista]

This thread aroused my curiosity, I have just read about the battle of Omdurman. My conclusion is that you will need a dustpan and brush to remove the casualties 

Cheers
Ian

[Maenoferren]

Omdurman was a pretty one sided affair with the odd exception. Hector Macdonald's Sudanese were hard pressed and he had to constantly reposition them. But at the end of the day the use of artillery opening fire at over a mile and a half followed by Maxim fire and hollow point bullets meant things would never end well for the Ansar.
As one eyewitness put it "They could never get near and they refused to hold back. ... It was not a battle but an execution."
One of the reasons I tend to stick to the earlier period.

[paulr]

That's the period of the war that interests me, small regular forces trying to hold off or force their way through larger irregular forces

[Maenoferren]

I am going to run an imaginary attempt to relieve Khartoum from Suakin to Berberin 1885. Lt. Col Stewart very kindly left information on distances, where the wells were and other useful things. Interestingly enough Wolsey had this information but decided on the longer and, to be honest, the wrong route.

[toxicpixie]

The BBB Yahoo group has some people who've done scenarios for the Sudan, IIRC? Might be a good starting place for ideas!

[FierceKitty]

When I did the whole nine yards as a games-mastered campaign a while ago, Omdurman was a welcome morale-booster for the British-Egyptian player, who never got near Khartoum in the earlier phase.

[Leman]

Science versus Pluck is currently available from Wargame Vault at a reasonable price. It is also written for small scale figures and focuses on desert columns. An interesting innovation is that you set up your column on table, and then instead of moving it forward you move the terrain past it. At some point the Fuzzies will appear and it then plays like a normal game.

[toxicpixie]

Should probably mention Peter Pig's "Patrols in the Sudan" as well - it's aimed at about the level of SvsP (I think), a column's worth of troops in an irregular environment with much need for scouting and sense

[Maenoferren]

We have had a fair few goes at SvP and I do like them. They worked quite well. We even had Dervish breaking and running down the face of a square.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello Paulr and Leman

Science versus Pluck is currently available from Wargame Vault at a reasonable price. It is also written for small scale figures and focuses on desert columns. An interesting innovation is that you set up your column on table, and then instead of moving it forward you move the terrain past it. At some point the Fuzzies will appear and it then plays like a normal game.

There is a version available for free download at http://freewargamesrules.wikia.com/wiki/Science_Vs_Pluck if you'd like to 'suck it and see'  . Pony Wars style game.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan