Hi all.

Did Russian standards in 1812 have any form of edging, eg lace etc? Or do I need to colour the white bits in with the flag colour?

Quote from: Last Hussar on 10 April 2024, 10:43:42 PMHi all.

Did Russian standards in 1812 have any form of edging, eg lace etc? Or do I need to colour the white bits in with the flag colour?

Not sure what white bits you mean.  Russians cavalry standards had a gold or silver fringe depending on regiment. 

Sorry, I mean the white bits caused by folding white printed paper! Never lines up perfectly, and even if it does, there is always the white top caused by the inside.

From warflag https://www.warflag.com/napflags/flaghtml/russindx.htm it appears no edging.

OK, I'm getting a bit confused here so may I please introduce some terminology?  Standards and guidons are carried by cavalry, not infantry, the latter being forked/swallow tailed versions of the former.  Infantry carry colours in the English speaking world, flags - drapeaux or fahnen - in French and German respectively.  Anyway, I think to answer the question, it is always a good idea to colour the white of paper 'flags' to match the 'flag' in question, be it fringes or other coloured parts.

'Flag'!

Sorry, wasn't really concentrating on language. I am talking about infantry colours for Russians in 1812.
I am planning to edge in thin black - and by edge I mean the actual edge, that is the join, not the border of the flag. I did try to do the colour match on the two last night, not convinced, hence will try a couple with thin black - will do the inside before mounting/gluing shut.

The white edge is always a pain but worth spending time to remove (or you will focus on this for years to come !).   I wouldn't suggest using a black edge but just as close a colour match as possible.   Depends on the figure (and flag) size but I think a slightly different colour edging will be far less noticeable at a distance than black.   I've used darker shades of the main field colour and they don't tend to be visible at normal playing distance.

When colouring the edges like this, I always use a wash of the paint which is most closely the same colour as the flag.

A light application of the wash along the edges (leaving the bits which need to be white as white) is readily absorbed into the paper and allows you to add a second application if needed.  I find that using a wash gives you more control over the colour matching process.

Even the white edges need to be painted, as an application of white paint helps mask the fact that there are two edges and gives the appearance of a single edge.

It is essential to colour the edges as this will create the illusion that it is a single sheet rather than two sheets; the eye is tricked that the impression of thickness is gone.

Well, this is going to be...'fun'...

Thanks for these replies. When I've finished the load of libe I have, I'll be looking to do this. Got to try to remember to do it BEFORE mounting onto the figures!

QuoteWhen colouring the edges like this, I always use a wash of the paint which is most closely the same colour as the flag.

A light application of the wash along the edges (leaving the bits which need to be white as white) is readily absorbed into the paper and allows you to add a second application if needed.  I find that using a wash gives you more control over the colour matching process.

Even the white edges need to be painted, as an application of white paint helps mask the fact that there are two edges and gives the appearance of a single edge.

It is essential to colour the edges as this will create the illusion that it is a single sheet rather than two sheets; the eye is tricked that the impression of thickness is gone.

This is very much my approach - I've found close enough is good enough for the match between printed flag and paint colour. It just stops it being jarring, and drawing your eye to the bright white cut paper. 

QuoteWell, this is going to be...'fun'...

Thanks for these replies. When I've finished the load of libe I have, I'll be looking to do this. Got to try to remember to do it BEFORE mounting onto the figures!

I do it once the flags are in situ - super easy to go along the top and back edges

That's what I normally do,  but going to try once on pole, but before glued on figure, as they are so small.

Quote from: Last Hussar on 11 April 2024, 07:37:20 PMThat's what I normally do,  but going to try once on pole, but before glued on figure, as they are so small.

That was my approach.  I scan and print my own flags from the commercial ones I buy, which I keep as masters.  That way if I make a mess of things I can always print another.  If you do try this using an inkjet printer, make sure the flag is thoroughly dry and give it a thin spray of matt varnish to seal it, otherwise it might bleed when you glue it, assuming the glue is PVA.  I usually remove cast staffs as they are too thick, and replace them with brass rod but that's just my preference.  I used to mounting the flag on the staff before fixing it to the figure, but these days I fix it to the staff after the staff has been fixed to the figure because it is easier to drape the flag while is is soft.  The PVA glue will soften the paper and make the flag pliable.  Touching-up the white edges that will inevitably show, is the last job and I always do it after the flag has been fixed to the staff and draped.  It is easy to do and you can see exactly what needs to be coloured to match the 'material' of the flag.  Just the smallest amount of paint is all you need, thin it slightly, just touch the edge where the white shows and that is about it.

Thanks.

I am not going for the historical/physics accurate with draping - these are on the Little Wooden Men, and so the 7mm square flags are flying full, not accurately slouching around. It's bad enough trying to position anything that small, let alone trying to encourage the paper to drape!

Quote from: Last Hussar on 12 April 2024, 09:22:12 AMThanks.

It's bad enough trying to position anything that small, !

I had heard you had that problem!