So we had our first game og CWC2 yesterday and a few questions arose.

1) If infantry with Carl Gustav fire at some other infantry at under half range. Do they get +1 dice for being under half range? The rules state weapons with H does not. But since they are shooting at infantry with their AP value and not using the AT value, they don't have an H.

2) How does shooting at on table helicopters work? The rules are written very much for airstrikes like in the first edition rules. As an example, I have a CO and an HQ as the only ones with AA capability. Do they fire at the helicopter as a reaction to its movement, what if the helo is staionary? Or do they order themselves to shoot at it in the order fase? If they fire as a raction do they have -1 to command? What roll is needed to hit a helicopter? Is is like normal shooting? the rules says spotter helos are only hit on 5+ but what about an attack or a transport?

Great to hear that you are playing the game 

I am on-holiday and (believe it or not) I don't have my copy of CWC II with me at present.
So (I think - from memory) that there is a section in the rules book about on-table Helicopters - but once I am back home in a couple of weeks I'll try and find the appropriate section for you.

Replies to your specific questions below:

1).IATW - such as Carl Gustav - don't get a +1 under half range - regardless of whether they are firing at Armoured or Soft targets or Fortifications. The H reduces the AT range by half, but that is only against armoured vehicles. You can use the the full AT stats against fortifications at the full range, but also in certain cases against flying helicopters (see below).

2).The best way to treat on-table helicopters is to just think of them as if they are ground-targets (odd as that may seem).
You measure firing ranges to their flight base - rather than the actual model.
All on-table helicopters move at a max of 50cm per turn in flight-mode - on a Commanded basis - (although Recce helicopters can move a multiple (up to x6) of 50cm a game turn - dependent upon your recce movement dice roll). You can shoot at a helicopter at any time in its move - so it might become visible between terrain gaps (for example) and can be shot at, at that point. If it is not subsequently suppressed (or knocked-out) from that fire, it can continue the rest of its remaining move.
Ground weapons (other than AA specific weapons) can only fire on helicopters if the helicopters are on the ground - although there are some exceptions around certain IATGWs (RPG-7 is a specific example) and most Dedicated* ATGWs can also target helicopters (*non-dedicated ATGW is specifically excluded from this capability due to such things as ammunition restrictions or restrictions around the weapon elevation and technology to fire into the air, and tactical doctrine restrictions etc.)

Your Command units with AA will only be able to fire AA as Opportunity fire in your opponents turn. This applies even if the helicopter is (notionally) static but airborne, as long as the helicopter is in range and LoS it can be hit. Command unit AA fire does not cause a -1 to orders next turn. This is because the Command units don't 'command' themselves. AA weapons will target helicopters on a 4+ (unless it is making a pop-up attack), 5+ to target 'spotter' or 'recce' helicopters and 6 to hit with ground based ATGW. Some more modern (post-Cold War) air-mobile wire-guided weapons are specifically air-to-air capable (helicopter hunter). These are however relatively rare and are covered specifically in each of the army lists which have these weapons (Special Rules).

Hopefully that helps get you going with on-table helicopters?

TBF Attack Helicopters are an 'exciting/sexy' part of the game, but are not actually the game-changing unit type you might think they are & that is based on a lot of research I was able to do in conversation with a UK Gulf War attack-helicopter crewman, and also a contact that 'manages' the new UK Apache helicopter fleet.
Helicopters are (as we have also seen in the Ukraine War recently) extremely vulnerable to ground fire AA (from MANPAD SAMs especially), especially when over relatively close terrain. The rules have always taken this approach, but it is interesting to see the reality of this in Ukraine.

US Cold War tactical doctrine (for example) with attack helicopters was that they were to avoid the main battle-front (as it was deemed to be far too dangerous) but were tasked to patrol (in 'packs') the rear of the enemy front-line and to target the flanks of enemy armoured formations, as they were building up. Or to take out vehicles on bridges or roads where they'd block transit route etc. in 'hit & run' type strikes.
Soviet Cold War helicopter tactics were more 'bullish' using attack helicopters (such as Hinds) as 'flying tanks' with them up-armoured accordingly. However, these tactics also changed, post Afghanistan, based on how vulnerable even the Hinds were to MANPAD SAMs (such as Stingers).
Tactical Doctrine around 'pop-up' attacks with most Cold War helicopter ATGW is pure suicide for the helicopter crew, as before Fire & Forget ATGW or even Top-down radars the helicopter was often static, in the air, silhouetted against the sky-line for up to a minute, whilst keeping the ATGW on-target. My ex-Gulf War pilot contact just chuckled at the Cold War assumption that these 'pop-up' attacks would really be that effective or that any helicopter crew would have actually attempted to deliver such an attack, especially in an AA-rich battlefield environment.   

In the Gulf War, once the enemy ground based AA had mostly been neutralized (often by fixed-wing air-assets) the attack helicopters were used at long-range with fire-&-forget ATGW from the rear of friendly Armoured formations, often specifically targeting tactical assets, such as radar units, fuel or ammo supply, rather than MBTs or massed APC/IFV formations - as their numbers were not adequate to really be as effective as the MBTs on the ground.

Where helicopters can really make an interesting contribution to the game (IMHO) is in transporting troops on-table. I've used my 1989 US 82nd Airborne forces helicopters to transport (my beloved) M-551 Sheridan tanks and supporting airborne infantry into a commanding flank position. Yes, I had a couple of Huey Cobras attack-helicopters riding 'shot-gun on the formation overall, but it was my CH-54B transports that were critical to getting the Sheridan's into position.

Thank you for the answer.

I was arguing that when shooting high explosive at some infantry you don't need as much accuracy as when shooting a HEAT round at tank. So they should have the +1 dice. Also it would differentiate their use of AP and AT.

I am still a bit unsure about how to shoot at helicopters. If an enemy transport helicopter moves into view and range of my AA unit I can shoot at it. Does that count as a reaction? Can I shoot at it with ordered fire in my own turn. If I manage to move into range and view of a helo?

Also one other small thing regarding scout moves. Do you have to do it all at once? If say my 4x4 scouts roll a 6 for their scout movement. And I move them 40cm but then as the turn develops I can see I now have more use for them on the other side of the battlefield, can I then move them the remaining 4 moves?

Replies - in-line below:

Quote from: Dr.Zombie on 11 January 2024, 09:15:51 AMThank you for the answer.

I was arguing that when shooting high explosive at some infantry you don't need as much accuracy as when shooting a HEAT round at tank. So they should have the +1 dice. Also it would differentiate their use of AP and AT.

> I hear you but in reality for most INF:LI units, using the IATW as an anti-infantry weapon, even with the added dice, doesn't make much sense.
Leaving aside the fact that it wasn't usual tactical doctrine to use these relatively expensive weapons that way against enemy infantry (unless they were in buildings or fortifications), if you look at the stats you end up with the following. Most Regular INF:LI have a basic weapons stat of 3/30 (with a +1 for under half-range*). Your Carl Gustav is at 5/40 - so already has a additional impact against 'soft' targets anyway.
*NB: the half range +1 bonus primarily represents the additional short range weaponry - MGs on MBTs, grenade launchers on AFVs and grenades with infantry. It is not really a + for a weapon firing at close range.

I am still a bit unsure about how to shoot at helicopters. If an enemy transport helicopter moves into view and range of my AA unit I can shoot at it. Does that count as a reaction? Can I shoot at it with ordered fire in my own turn. If I manage to move into range and view of a helo?

> In your example, it depends upon the type of AA weapon. Command AA only fires once per game turn - so the moment the target helicopter is in-range and in LoS it can be shot at. This is Opportunity Fire - so no Command is required. Command AA cannot then fire AA again for the rest of the game-turn or as Commanded fire in your own game turn. But there is no -1 Command penalty for the Command unit for having used Opportunity Fire (this is a special rule to cover integrated Command AA).
Other AA units (Dedicated) can fire fire using Opportunity (or Initiative) Fire (in the opponents game turn) and then any number of times under Commanded fire (based upon successful command rolls). Other AA units can fire using Opportunity or Initiative fire and once using Commanded fire.

Also one other small thing regarding scout moves. Do you have to do it all at once? If say my 4x4 scouts roll a 6 for their scout movement. And I move them 40cm but then as the turn develops I can see I now have more use for them on the other side of the battlefield, can I then move them the remaining 4 moves?
> You can move your Recce units all or part or even none of your rolled move in a turn. You can also move in a phased basis across the game-turn. I recommend you keep a small dice with the moving unit - with the score you originally rolled on it to start with, but deduct what moves you have made - but a part move represents a full PIP on the dice. Also, remember to make all your Recce moves before you roll your CO command dice, as once the CO fails a Command roll, all movement stops.

Cheers
Mark