Sweden had Green Archer counter-mortar radars, and the Bplpbv-3023, a flsh-spot sound ranging version of the Pbv-302 APC in the 1970s.

As mentioned, the S-Tank is an unusual case. Relatively thin armour, but highly sloped and with no turret.

This provided good protection in the 60s (the Swedes estimated as much as a Chieftain), but became obsolete in the 70s (really the S-Tank overall in a nutshell).

Just to add, the S-Tank also had very good reversing capabilities (better than its contemporaries) with a separate reverse driver (who also managed the radio). This means the S-Tank could more easily keep its front towards the enemy when redeploying/retreating. Not sure, if that should count when calculating hits/saves?

On the other side, the S-Tank had poorer off-road capabilities than the Swedish Centurions. Maybe its speed should be reduced (given the amount of off-roading on a battlefield)?

I agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally. Plus hull down it has as low a profile as an unarmed jeep. It can also turn on the spot quicker than many tanks can traverse their turrets. Watch the Youtibe videos on it.
I would say the S-tank was viable well into the 1970s, because the most common enemy tank it would face was still the T-55 and PT-76 - none of the T-64s and T-72s were deployed in the northern theatres, and the only 125mm it would face would be T-80s from the mid 1980s. I'm not even sure it would have had to face T-62s.

All very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun' 

I'm researching the Portuguese list(s) at present and came across a French made (wheeled) APC (EBR-ETT) used exclusively in Angola, where Portugal was the only export customer (in fact the only customer) for this vehicle, which was basically a turretless Armoured Car (Panhard EBR) with a troop compartment to the rear - but with some integral MGs like a tank.

NB: the Portuguese used a 'fab' vehicle camouflage pattern in Africa/Angola. Just a shame that they use so few armoured vehicles in Africa.

Cheers
Mark

Quote from: sultanbev on 15 June 2022, 09:32:27 PMI agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally.

Hmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.

Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 06:47:46 AMHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.

The Tank Chat is worth a look.
S-tank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cb7GlOnSY
Chieftain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OF9IvtHLk

QuoteHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.

Looking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.


Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?

Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.

Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.

Quote from: Raider4 on 17 June 2022, 09:02:04 AMLooking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.


Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?

Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.

Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.

Yes, well aware of all that.

Unfortunately my views on Western/NATO tanks were on the other thread relating to the army lists.

So, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.

Can we move this debate over to the Army list Errata chat please folks.
Or it will get lost here or be overlooked.
Thanks
Mark

Quote from: Big Insect on 16 June 2022, 10:16:43 AMAll very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun' 

Given what I'm working on ATM I have to disagree......I hate armies that don't throw anything away.

Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 09:07:34 PMSo, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.

I will certainly review and consider that dylan - as we enter into the errata review - thank you

2 new army lists released tonight to go with our new ranges, which can be found here: https://www.pendraken.co.uk/arab-israeli-1082-c.asp

Arab-Israeli Wars 1956+
- Arab States
- Israeli

New lists look good. I would have separated the Arabs out into 3 lists and there should perhappes have been an Iraqi one (Not checked to see if I wrote one) as they commited in 73. Nice to see the NATO designations for missiles ie AT-3 Sagger.

More new army lists released tonight, with the Indo-Pakistan War now covered plus an extra Vietnam list for the ANZACs:

Vietnam War 1957-75
- ANZAC

Indo-Pakistan War 1965-71
- Indian
- Pakistan

Two new army lists released tonight with the Chinese and South Korean lists now available to download:

Cold War 1946-90
- Chinese
- South Korean

This completes Batch 2 of our planned lists, so that's 38 online now.  We'll be moving on to Batch 3 in the coming weeks so keep an eye out for those.