Crimea

Started by fsn, 01 March 2014, 03:20:35 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Last Hussar

Stalin moved them in
I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain why you are wrong.

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

GNU PTerry

Alan

Hello Comrades.

Just as an aside with all these wise words, have any of you guys lived in the Soviet Union? Or Russia? Just out of interest? Or Ukraine? I have. Or I thought I had. It doesn't seem to match the experiences our merry group has of these people. I have a Russian living with me. Despite my best efforts, she is still in the house. And she has annexed the TV. You are right! They are all evil and can't wait to take over everything. Thank goodness we will get more purely defensive rockets (even if we don't want them) all over the place to save us from these terrible people.

Whilst Mr. Putin isn't perfect for us, for Russians by and large, he is the best they have. They tried democracy and got Yeltsin and McDonalds... Ukraine is their best friend. Now, somehow (not that I am suggesting for a minute they were helped by the UK, EU and the USA, who absolutely have no history whatsoever of destabilising democratic countries like ooooh Chile for example) the mish mash of far and centre right opponents have come together and overthrown a democratically elected government. Why? Because some people didn't like the fact that the country was going to join COMECON, but without the COM. Now, Ukraine is being run by an interesting bunch of people. They are lovely. Hello Svoboda! And not corrupt at all.

So what should the Russian govt actually do? The letter and spirit of the Budapest Memorandum was violated by all signature parties really leading upto this sorry situation. If democratic electoral processes are out the window, which clearly they seem to be, then why shouldn't the people of Crimea and eastern Ukraine decide to be independent, or join Russia. The way to get things done there now as supported by the EU and the USA is to throw the toys out of the pram, so if its good enough for one side its good enough for the other?

Right, I am now going to go and wake the kids up (Russian passport holders) and beat them with a stick until they start crying and make them write out a 1000 times "Russians go home". Not in Latin though. We would be in a right mess then... "Russia to their homes go"?

Last Hussar

Yeah and think of all those ethnic Russians in Latvia, Lithuania and the other old socialist republics who could need protecting at any moment.

Thank God for all those oligarchs who became billionaires by managing to buy state industries.
I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain why you are wrong.

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

GNU PTerry

OldenBUA

Hello Alan. Again, not really the place for political discussion. No, I've not been to Russia. But my wife is Ukrainian (my brother-in-law has been called up as a reservist). So, yes, I have been to Ukraine, though my longest stay was three weeks or so. Ofcourse, Russians are people, just like everybody else. If they want Putin, they want Putin. And I know a lot of them want Putin, and for many reasons. I just happen to think some of these are the wrong reasons, and I would wish for them that they had a bit more of a say about it as well. But sadly, they don't, as you should well know.

Funny you should mention corruption. Many of the protesters on Maydan weren't there because they wanted closer ties with the West. An end to all the corruption was/is much more important. It's one of the reasons the opposition parties could never get their full support, they wanted the whole bunch to get lost, and start anew. Not that it will happen, but they tried. Not really possible in Russia, is it?
Water is indeed the essential ingredient of life, because without water you can't make coffee!

Aander lu bin óók lu.

sebigboss79

Quote from: OldenBUA on 06 March 2014, 08:05:23 PM
Not really possible in Russia, is it?

Not really possible in Imperial England, not really possible in Imperial or fascist Germany....the list goes on.

"Occasionally the tree of liberty needs watering witht he blood of tyrants and patriots" - but Jefferson did NOT talk about "foreigners who know better than you do".

What concerns me is humnanities inability to leave each other alone, much less not go on each others nerves. Why can we not all get along?

Last Hussar

sebigboss, awkward comment, but not aimed at your nationality, and not drawing a direct comparison, but...

We have seen 'These are our people, so we must move in to protect them' before.  I personally think Chamberlain was in exactly the same sort of bind - how to protect Czechoslovakia?  You can say 'This is wrong' without 'meddling'.

"To stay neutral in the struggle between powerful and the weak, is to side with the weak."
I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain why you are wrong.

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

GNU PTerry

nikharwood

Perhaps some levity...


Alan

Haha! I like that cartoon. Yes very good. I think if Putin and Obama had a fight, Mr.P would win. If it were a dance off however...

Still it looks like drama over. America have said they will come and sort our energy requirements out so we are all safe and sound. You don't think the Americans had this idea planned all along do you? No, nor do I!

right, back to hitting the kids with a stick. Lets see if we can get the evil out them. I would go for a beer in the fridge first but the kitchen held a referendum this morning which the wife and kids supported and its now no longer part of this house. I hope John Kerry comes along and pours a can of Fosters through the letter box or I am done for.

nikharwood

This should help de-escalate too...


nikharwood


FierceKitty

Quote from: sebigboss79 on 06 March 2014, 08:50:07 PM
Not really possible in Imperial England, not really possible in Imperial or fascist Germany....the list goes on.


What concerns me is humnanity's inability to leave each other alone, much less not go on each other's nerves. Why can we not all get along?

Forty-two!
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.


sebigboss79

Quote from: nikharwood on 06 March 2014, 11:39:07 PM
This should help de-escalate too...



Depends. I would prefer to see more upward if you know what I mean  :d