By Fire and Sword

[OldenBUA]

It's probably not a pick up and play game, but it isn't all that complicated either, when you get the hang of it. And the QRF could be better (some people agreed and made an improved version).

Choosing forces, with the diagrams supplied can be tricky, as you have quite a few options. But for a first game, just the basic force should work just fine. Also, the basic Patrol scenario is the easiest to set up. Though maybe not the easiest to win (depending on what troops you field).

Anyway, if you have anything that leaves you scratching your head, feel free to ask!

[Nosher]

Is there a better Refernce sheet anywhere other than on the rules forum? I get a bit fed up joining forums I never bother using just to download things needed for the game...

If anyone has the newer/revised version I'd be grateful if they could message me.

I am trying to give this game the benfit of the doubt - I think its because now i have a job I finally have to use my brain for, I like to not use it when I'm doing hobby related things

[Nick the Lemming]

The basic concepts of the game are pretty easy to get your head around. Like a lot of games, the first few times you play you have to search around the book a few times, but it quickly settles down. Like most of the games I've played over the last 30 years, I can pretty much play BF&S using just the reference sheets now, and that's only after half a dozen games at most.

The division set up thing is a bit of a head scratcher at first - it could and should have been better explained in the book - but once you do get it, it becomes pretty easy too. If you're just starting off, I'd suggest the skirmish game anyway to get used to how the core rules work (movement, combat, morale etc).

[nikharwood]

Yep - pretty much agreed - with all of you...

Nosher - it's not as bad as it seems - one of the things that has really helped me is Anatoli's blog: definitely worth reading a load of his BF&S posts (over 100+ of them), especially the batreps...I guess it might be hindered by its translation to English a bit? Having said that, and without having played a game yet, I've 'got' the basics through reading a few times.

The help here from OldenBUA (& Anatoli's blog) certainly made it easier for me to get my head around building force lists...

I think Nick the Lemming is right - might be worth having a bash at the skirmish level - after all, you've got plenty figures painted up already 

[Nosher]

The basic concepts of the game are pretty easy to get your head around. Like a lot of games, the first few times you play you have to search around the book a few times, but it quickly settles down. Like most of the games I've played over the last 30 years, I can pretty much play BF&S using just the reference sheets now, and that's only after half a dozen games at most.

The division set up thing is a bit of a head scratcher at first - it could and should have been better explained in the book - but once you do get it, it becomes pretty easy too. If you're just starting off, I'd suggest the skirmish game anyway to get used to how the core rules work (movement, combat, morale etc).

Noted on the player contributed QRs that close combat section INCLUDES the modifiers for charging and defending obstacles which is cool. However Pistols have suddenly appeared in the same list of modifiers however I cant find this in the main rule book... although I do recall Pistols getting a -1 when shooting whilst charging which is mentioned in the fluff in the army lists.

1.  Can anyone point out where the +1 for pistols charging come from in the rules?

2.  If I have it right you get a +1 for pistols being used in close combat, but a -1 for using them if choosing to shoot during the charge move??

HELP!

[OldenBUA]

Using pistols to get a +1 in Close Combat is a bit hidden, and it's an advanced rule (marked with special symbol) as well. See page 73, the bit that starts with 'If the limited ammunition rule is used...'

Note that you get a +1 on Skill for your Close Combat dice. Which is not the same as the 'Shooting while charging' dice. In effect, you use them in the charge, and AGAIN in Close Combat. But you also use ammunition twice.

i.e. A unit of 2 bases of Reiters charges (two wide, 1 deep). First you do the 'Shooting while charging', which is only one die for each base, with a -1 on skill. Then you get to close combat, where each base gets two dice, with a +1 for the Pistols, and other modifiers (i.e. +1 for impetus). The unit will use two units of ammunition with this. Reiters usually have limited ammo, so that's half of the ammo in one charge! So it may be better to save your ammo for close combat... And by the way, not all pistol armed troops have the 'shooting while charging' rule as well.

We do find that deeper formations help. First it helps a lot with the outnumbering combat resolution modifiers. And second it means you shoot with half bases, so you spend only half an ammo with each shot.

I hope all that makes some sense.

[Nosher]

It does Alex - it confirms my thoughts.

I take it the +1 for pistols is a skill modifier (i.e it increases the unit skill factor by +1 rather than the dice roll)

Another question on CC - do overlapping bases fight when they have corner to corner contact or do they just count towards numbers of bases for outnumbering purposes?

[OldenBUA]

Yes, plus one on skill, so better chance to hit.

The question about overlapping bases fighting or not has been discussed on the BFaS forum. The outcome was that these bases can fight. This even applies if those bases are from another unit, as long as there is actual contact, even if it's only corner to corner. There is also the rule that bases within 2 cm can fight, but this rule only applies for bases from a unit where some bases are in contact with the enemy.

Having said this, I must say this hasn't come up much in our games so far, as it's usually a single unit fighting against another single unit. And lots of open order troops, where everything is more fluid, as well. Also, since it's not DBM, bases don't line up corner to corner, so this situation is less likely to happen in the first place.

[GordonY]

Nik, what figure codes are you using for all these bloody standard bearers?

Got 3 good uns from the Ottoman command pack but thats it so far, seem to need a standard for every dozen or so figures.

[nikharwood]

Nik, what figure codes are you using for all these bloody standard bearers?

Got 3 good uns from the Ottoman command pack but thats it so far, seem to need a standard for every dozen or so figures.

Really? Hmm...I'd not really thought of it like that..I've ordered exactly what I listed here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9389.0.html

I don't see how you're needing a standard for every dozen figures though - what am I missing?!

[OldenBUA]

I don't see how you're needing a standard for every dozen figures though - what am I missing?!

Each banner/company/sotnia (i.e. group of 2-4 bases) could have it's own command element, with officer/standard bearer/musician. They make the units look better, but have no impact on the game.

[nikharwood]

Each banner/company/sotnia (i.e. group of 2-4 bases) could have it's own command element, with officer/standard bearer/musician. They make the units look better, but have no impact on the game.

Ah - now I see, that's fine - I'm bunging 10 figures on each base, so it's more like a standard for every 20-40 figures for me 

[GordonY]

Great, so I dont have to find that many banners, thats a big plus.   Especially since there seems to be a total lack of them around, so it'll be only a banner on all my Colonels bases.

The more I look at this the more I'm convinced that I should have commited heresy and just gone for the 15mm option, that way it was £40 to North Star and thats your skirmish force done, megalomania strikes again, who wants to play at skirmish level when you can chuck a division on the table.

[nikharwood]

The more I look at this the more I'm convinced that I should have commited heresy and just gone for the 15mm option, that way it was £40 to North Star and thats your skirmish force done, megalomania strikes again, who wants to play at skirmish level when you can chuck a division on the table.

You won't regret this in 10mm...so much betterer 

[OldenBUA]

The more I look at this the more I'm convinced that I should have commited heresy and just gone for the 15mm option, that way it was £40 to North Star and thats your skirmish force done, megalomania strikes again, who wants to play at skirmish level when you can chuck a division on the table.

While I have my Cossacks and Tatars in 15mm, I took the plunge and ordered figures for Polish and Swedish forces from Pendraken. And while I certainly like the big bases full of figures look, I decided to go the other way, and use smaller bases for that 'coffee table' travel set experience. Your £40 will only get you a small skirmish force. My £100 gets me two BIG skirmish forces, with (almost) all options covered. To get that in 15mm would cost almost three times as much.

If you want divisional level games with anything more than bare bones regiments, it will start to add up quickly.