Younger wargamers?

[J.S.]

So that's it, as you see i was aware that there were other things around then GW, but most of the time the problem was finding someone else who wanted to play something else!

Guess you can't escape GW..
Until a few weeks ago I've never owned a single GW figure, then a Friend of mine told me that he was interested in tabletop...but only 40k  
So I bought a horribly painted second-hand army form ebay for little money and now I'm repainting them to fit my standards...sometimes you have to take the potluck when it comes to wargaming.

[petercooman]

True, better play 40k than don't play at all 

Andyou can always use the models or other purposes, like skirmish games etc...

[howayman]

i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?

[petercooman]

i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?

maybe wise? 

[Hertsblue]

i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?

No, very, very lucky. 

[Sean Clark]

My club is pretty healthy mainly down to one member who is head of history at one of the local schools cherry picking likely types for initiation. We have several memebrs now in their 20's who started at the club in their mid teens, and most are playing historical games.

Interestingly (and perhaps topic for another debate) but the GW contingent at the club are turning away from playing Warhammer in its latest incarnation. Trawling the various forums seems to show a slow decline in interest in all things GW, and not just from the usual GW bashers.

[Steve J]

i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?

Not from where I'm standing it doesn't . I got into war gaming a few years  before the very first White Dwarf came out. For years I had the first 7 issues and then gave them to a friend whilst at Uni. If I still had them they'd be worth quite a bit of money now .

[howayman]

Do not get me wrong ,i have done my fair share of fantasy role playing and since the late 70s have wanted a skeleton army but when somebody tried to say your force had to have this and that but couldn't have him or her and they must have this colour uniform i thought "ITS FANTASY for gods sake" and never bought into it.
   the youngsters come to this through a high street retailer not a back street shop or kiosk at a metro station the way i did. Its given to them on a plate for a cost. a move to historical means meeting people who know their stuff, and often tell you out right that those uniforms are wrong, that those tanks were not used at that time etc, etc. and most kids can not handle that type of put down in a hobby.
  the ones that want to will move on into historical gaming eventually.

[sebigboss79]

I see the issue twofold.

Firstly, yes the younger ones are easily influenced into believing GW is the one and only truth. no need to elaborate. We all been there, seen it.
For me it is a pitty that we as gamers apparently are less successful to show the youngsters how much fun wargaming can be.

We could have:

-intersting talks across all age groups
-free admirers ( )
-a healthy mix of games and ages (we don't get younger guys)

but instead we have

-Powergamers
-GW Fanboys bombing (or trying to) and sabotaging other wargames and if it is only by trashtalk during demo games.
-we get LOTS of young guys (and girls) LEAVING the hobby for a variety of reasons.

Especially the last point is very sad. I know a 12 years old guy in my German LGS who was playing Space Marines. He did invest time and money in HIS army and was quite skilled playing it already. What happened to him deciding it is not worth the effort? Well some GW fanboys knowitalls wiped his entire aarmy out in round 1. Not once, not twice.

Others look at the amont of time they have to invest and decide to go back to computergames.

Does GW address that? On the contrary. Beginner games and the "help" they offer are just self interest they attempt to cover in "doing something for the hobby". GW does not give a flying f.. about "the hobby". They care about next and only next, annual report. But instead of ranting only let us think about what we, the gamers could do.

We should only buy from a business that does something for the hobby. That spurs interest and has a shall we say more decent approach to business?

We should encourage younger gamers to join us. Show them how much fun it can be to do some reading about the "Desert Rats" or Arnhem, learn something, buy and built an army and get together with other, likeminded peple and PLAY. Playing should be fun. It should be accessible and allow some freedom of choice. You want King Tiger Tanks to go with your Roman Legionaries? By all means if the ruleset supports it do it.

Most of all the older generation f gamers needs to realise we NEED the younger ones. And it is up to US (not GW!!!) to shape them to be "right". It can happen. Not overnight but everytime you can get someone interested in what you are doing is a chance they will pick it up at some point.

My daughter (6) already paints Battlemechs (very expressionistic) and wants to do a Star Wars Army (god knows how much it will cost me..). Another army she wants is Romans (yay) and she has read about the Roman soldiers so she knows how to build that army.

[Kiwidave]

Interestingly (and perhaps topic for another debate) but the GW contingent at the club are turning away from playing Warhammer in its latest incarnation. Trawling the various forums seems to show a slow decline in interest in all things GW, and not just from the usual GW bashers.

Just the opposite at the club I sort of still attend - 8th edition of Warhammer has created a resurgence of interest. Not surprising though really, as our club was founded by WFB players, and has always been principally a fantasy cub. A few members had dabbled with WAB for a while, but that has waned, and once upon a time there was an interest in Warmaster Ancients....

[petercooman]

   the youngsters come to this through a high street retailer not a back street shop or kiosk at a metro station the way i did. Its given to them on a plate for a cost. a move to historical means meeting people who know their stuff, and often tell you out right that those uniforms are wrong, that those tanks were not used at that time etc, etc. and most kids can not handle that type of put down in a hobby.
  the ones that want to will move on into historical gaming eventually.

This is true, i wouldn't know half as much about uniforms equipment and god knows what if it weren't for my wargaming. Wargaming equals research and equals LEARNING. And that my friends is a word not many youngsters want to associate with their hobby

When you get a little older, your interests start to shift a little, and you might get more in to history oppossed to when you are in school or shortly after. I think the reason for this is because you are being fed constant information in class about all kind of subjects, insted of learning about what interests YOU.
When you get older and start looking into it yourself you choose your own subjects, and that makes it easier and even enjoyable.

I can honestmy say, there was only one class in high school that i failed in 6 years, and that was history .
And know you can't even open a cupboard in the house without a book about a long gone era falling out 

You have to have your own history before you can appreciate that of others.

[Hertsblue]

Just the opposite at the club I sort of still attend - 8th edition of Warhammer has created a resurgence of interest. Not surprising though really, as our club was founded by WFB players, and has always been principally a fantasy cub. A few members had dabbled with WAB for a while, but that has waned, and once upon a time there was an interest in Warmaster Ancients....

Our club was always an historical group, to the extent that one meeting a month was always solely Napoleonic. I have watched it, over the space of forty years, gradually get taken over by the fantasists and 40k-ers. Today, one table a meeting is all the history buffs can manage whilst all the yelling and excitement is grouped around the 40k tables at the other end of the hall.

Why? Largely I think because of that greatly misunderstood and subtly powerful entity - marketing. Marketing demands money and resources, but once in place yeilds high rewards. Marketing made GW what it is today - a listed stockmarket company. Marketing has raised Battlefront and FOW to the second most popular period in the genre. Against that what can the historical fraternity muster? We are, as my old boss used to say, "farting against thunder".

However, we do have one huge advantage - direct access to the youngsters. We often get lads wandering over to see what we're putting on. We've managed to persuade one or two to join in from time to time. One lad even turned up with a few tanks of his own to play in a WW2 game. That's the way it has to be - softlee, softlee catchee monkey.

[Nosher]

Sounds like the club I attend Hertblue.

One historical table at one end of the hall and GW and all its derivatives taking up 90% of the tables. The old fogeys crammed around the historical table while everyone under the age of 40 is playing something fantasy related.

Personally I dont care as the 10% I game with have good personal hygeine, know what a toothbrush looks like and appreciate a pint or two of proper ale

[Hertsblue]

Sounds like the club I attend Hertblue.

One historical table at one end of the hall and GW and all its derivatives taking up 90% of the tables. The old fogeys crammed around the historical table while everyone under the age of 40 is playing something fantasy related.

Personally I dont care as the 10% I game with have good personal hygeine, know what a toothbrush looks like and appreciate a pint or two of proper ale

Yeah, and they don't screech like banshees. 

[Luddite]

Don't underestimate the power of PC/console games too.

I bought my nephews into 40k, but they didn't stick with it - mainly due to their interest in computer games.  This may be a reason why there are fewer youngsters at the tabletop?

But i support the pattern generally elucidated previously, and i think its certainly a pattern i've seen/experienced:

8-16yrs     GW
16-26yrs   Beer, women, Uni, adult life establishment
26+yrs      Back into 'Wargames' (generally derisive of GW)

The thing about GW though is that they are pretty much the only company out their recruiting youngsters into 'analogue' gaming. 

Love/hate/both the so called 'evil empire', what other route do kids have into the wargames hobby? 

What other company, organisation, or club(?) is running systematic recruitment of the next generation of wargamers?

Pendraken's sort of 'old school' in its approach and business model isn't it?  Its a figure maker and nothing more. 

So many new starts now seem to follow the GW model of combining rules, IP, and figures into a proprietory product package so often resisted by older (and more crotchety) gamers/grognards.

The benefit of the proprietory model is that you as a company/organisation CAN actively go out and 'recruit' young gamers to your cause as you can hand everything to them on a plate.  Its far harder without that model to establish and engage new players isn't it?

'Doing everything yourself' requires a lot more 'buy in' and effort from players who may not yet have decided that this is the hobby for them...

Does it matter?

Do we want to leave a 'legacy' of a vibrant hobby to the next generation? 

I guess sellers want a continuing consumer base, but old players?

Interesting topic...