In poor taste?

[petercooman]

Partisans?

Volksturm?

Greek Hoplites?

Saxon Fyrd?

True, not to mention the vietnam war and afghanistan and all that. We game that too.

You have a house? If you model the ruin of a little farmstead in normandy, is that to close to home? It might at well be your house.

Everyone who plays 'a very british civil war", are they wrong?

My grandmother got shrapnel in her leg after the germans bombed our country. Should i throw my germans in the bin now?

This is just a a case of "to each his own" i think. Some may find it innapropriate, to me it is just another setting.

[sebigboss79]

Agreed Luddite. I shall elaborate.

Indeed violence seldom serves a higher purpose. Yet where does wargaming come from? Actually from the general staff wargaming exercises.

I used the term "moronic" to highlight the distance from the surrounding (football) to the action (hooliganism). Why do you go to football games? Certainly not to get beaten up or beat other people up. See my further reasoning.

And thus I must disagree with the "to each its own".

Petercooman you have made a deliberate decision to game Germans. It is your personal decision whether to game them or discard / not game them  due to personal reasons. Those reasons need no discussion or understanding. Me for example would love to get a 2nd SS Tank and replay Arnheim to let the Brits win. Is my choice tasteless? Maybe so but I would argue that playing a "Hooligan" army would be showing less taste.

[Luddite]

Indeed violence seldom serves a higher purpose.

Actually i disagree with this but that's another debate...

Yet where does wargaming come from? Actually from the general staff wargaming exercises.

Why is this relevant?

Presumably the 'general staff' didn't use plastic space marines..yet we still have them.

And i've no doubt that the various forces around the world have 'wargamed'  riot control scenarios...

Why do you go to football games?

I don't.  Its a dreadfull, tedious, pointless game played largely by moral degenerates.  Kissball just isn't worth anybody's time.

Certainly not to get beaten up or beat other people up. See my further reasoning.

Yet it would appear that thousands if not millions of people around the world go for precisely this reason.  Seems a shame not to have a go at wargaming such an interesting tactical setting.

And thus I must disagree with the "to each its own".

OK.  To each his own.   

Maybe so but I would argue that playing a "Hooligan" army would be showing less taste.

OK.  Make your argument.   

[petercooman]

And thus I must disagree with the "to each its own".

Petercooman you have made a deliberate decision to game Germans. It is your personal decision whether to game them or discard / not game them  due to personal reasons. Those reasons need no discussion or understanding. Me for example would love to get a 2nd SS Tank and replay Arnheim to let the Brits win. Is my choice tasteless? Maybe so but I would argue that playing a "Hooligan" army would be showing less taste.

Yes it was my deliberate decision to have Germans. So they can't be discussed like you say in your post.

If i deliberately decide to play a hooligan army, suddenly i am showing less taste and it can be discussed?

So what you are saying is that "to each it's own" only applies when you find "my own" tastefull yourself.  

Don't take this the wrong way though, just pointing out that you can't discuss tastes  

[sebigboss79]

Up to a point I totally agree with your statement.

Should you decide against a "German Army" for personal reasons thats understandable for your case.

I also agree that a growing lot of people uses, rather abuses, football as a platform to get violent. Again, if such is the purpose why go to a football match? Meet with likeminded people and beat the crap out of each other but do it without interfering with other people who do not share your "interest".

Let me return the question then and elaborate when violence served a higher purpose? "The monopoly of force lies with the state" - as the German saying goes. Other than sanctioned application of force by a CIVILIAN authority I have difficulty in finding reasons. Agreed there are people you/me/anyone would like to beat the crap out of for a variety of reasons. Yet such behaviour would be sanctioned. Cutting a long story short, anarchism may look desirable on first look but be advised there IS someone stronger than you and your freedom ends where mine starts. I do not take any offence and I hope you do not either by my reply. Apparently some peple in other forums DO take offence easily but I disgress.

The history of wargaming is relevant to the point as in replaying or simulating conflicts is the essence of the game. To which extent this has to be a military conflict could remain debatable.

The point where taste becomes debatable, imho, is when a majority of people disagrees with certain types of actions. You would agree that playing an army of KZ guards vs inmates is as tasteless as it can get on top of my head. If you were correct this would simply be another "taste" but I believe there is a limit to "taste" although it is sometimes difficult to articulate.

[goat major]

Well I can't really summon an interest in footie hooligans but once someone does some decent mods and rockers then I'm in for a Brighton Beach 1964 scenario. VBCW round 2

[Sandinista]

Well I can't really summon an interest in footie hooligans but once someone does some decent mods and rockers then I'm in for a Brighton Beach 1964 scenario. VBCW round 2

Agreed, those Mods deserve a good kicking just for the silly scooters, not to mention those bloody parkas 

Awaits LA pic from Nik... 

[petercooman]

The point where taste becomes debatable, imho, is when a majority of people disagrees with certain types of actions. You would agree that playing an army of KZ guards vs inmates is as tasteless as it can get on top of my head. If you were correct this would simply be another "taste" but I believe there is a limit to "taste" although it is sometimes difficult to articulate.

While i understand what you are saying, i still think you can't discuss taste.

An example:

In some countries being gay is treated like a disease (yes in these days it still happens), so a majority of people disagree with it. So should that particular taste of sexuality become debatable? (don't get me wrong, i have no problem with holebi 's at all, like in a "to each his own" kinda way  )

Everyone has a different vieuw on things, we can never change that. We can express our opinion about something, and we can dislike something, but we can't change the way other people feel about the same subject.

And that's what i mean with "to each his own"

[goat major]

Awaits LA pic from Nik... 

[sebigboss79]

While i understand what you are saying, i still think you can't discuss taste.

An example:

In some countries being gay is treated like a disease (yes in these days it still happens), so a majority of people disagree with it. So should that particular taste of sexuality become debatable? (don't get me wrong, i have no problem with holebi 's at all, like in a "to each his own" kinda way  )

Everyone has a different vieuw on things, we can never change that. We can express our opinion about something, and we can dislike something, but we can't change the way other people feel about the same subject.

And that's what i mean with "to each his own"

Again, I do agree to a great extent. I have been playing footy with a gay dude, sold them houses and have gay friends. As long as they do not ask me to join them I am cool with it. This is what I mean with limits to freedom and taste.

Oppinions and taste should be separate. My oppinion may be tasteless (in some cases it is actually.) Refer to my example above and "taste" does become a common oppinion. You would surely not promote certain types of behaviour, would you?

[petercooman]

No i wouldn't, but playing wargames with football hooligans promotes as much bad behaviour as playing other wargames in my opinion.

Nobody decides to overthrow a nation after a game, and nobody decides to smash the other sides face(s).

Well we can think about it, but we don't do it 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Agreed, those Mods deserve a good kicking just for the silly scooters, not to mention those bloody parkas 

My dad was there, said it was great (and he's not a violent person, just an old rocker)! 

[goat major]

My dad was there, said it was great (and he's not a violent person, just an old rocker)! 

Leon already does the transfers - just need the figures now

http://www.minibits.net/BR-121-p670/

[Leon]

Leon already does the transfers - just need the figures now

http://www.minibits.net/BR-121-p670/

[Luddite]

Agreed, those Mods deserve a good kicking just for the silly scooters, not to mention those bloody parkas 

Great idea!

Classic beachfront skirmish.  For rules you could use Legends of the Old West Quadrophenia.