My 1809 stuff

[Hertsblue]

No flags eh? Does that go for cavalry as well? If so that'll save me a tiresome job. 

Only need some on the Austrian cavalry then.

Gordon does his happy dance................

Not sure about the cavalry, but it would seem likely. 

[mollinary]

HB,

An interesting point. Although I am a self confessed flag geek, I don't pretend to any expertise on the French of this period, and I totally accept the primacy of the eagle itself over the flag.  But this raises a further question: if the eagle was important, and was taken on campaign, why was the flag, which was not important, not taken on campaign?   The flag was considered important enough to go through a succession of developments of design, and even in the 100 days a new set of flags was designed and issued.  So why was this done if they were not to be carried in action? Not sure I understand any rationale for this.  Perhaps this is a new area of geek-dom I need to immerse myself in?   

Mollinary

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

It's not the first time I have heard this, I believe it was common.

[Hertsblue]

As far as I'm aware, the flag was only carried on ceremonial occasions. Keith Over, in his Flags and Standards of the Napoleonic Wars (London 1976) states; "In 1808 it was decreed that only one eagle was to be carried per regiment and that by the first battalion..... Regiments often carried the eagle without the unimportant flag, sometimes on the bare staff, and sometimes with a tricoloured cravatte replacing the flag."

Terry Wise in his Flags of the Napoleonic Wars - Volume 1 (Osprey 1978) says that "During the 1805 campaign some of the Hussar regiments, whose dispersed role was not conducive to confidence that they could honour their oath to defend the eagles, returned most of their eagles to their depots; and in September 1806 it was officially laid down that Hussar, Chasseurs a Cheval and Light Infantry regiments should hand in all their eagles at the beginning of a campaign. It was known that at least the 4th and 9th Hussars ignored this order and carried four eagles until 1812, and a Legere regiment's eagle was lost in battle as late as 1814.
    The order was soon extended to include the dragoons, who were allowed to keep only one eagle in the field; and in 1809 the Army of Germany was instructed to return all eagles except one per regiment, this one to be carried by the 1st Battalion or 1st Squadron."

From all this it appears that, although various issues of eagles and flags were made, and instructions were issued to recall them, there was a great deal of license taken by the individual units, some of which stubbornly stuck to the old practices, whilst others did as they chose. 

[GordonY]

In that case only Austrian donkey-wallopers will be issued with flags, saves me a lot of cursing and swearing.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

However the French did carry them in the second Empire!

[GordonY]

Lemmey, its 1809 ffs, the 1st Empire is still in its heyday.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I know I know! Just wish some of the 1870 generals had the same backbone as their illustrious forebears!

[Hertsblue]

However the French did carry them in the second Empire!

Yes, but only by the second or "centre" battalions of each infantry regiment.