Some Questions about pendraken and 10mm in General

[KOVAV]

     
Hey all! I ordered my army a while ago, and I am hoping to get them in two weeks or so, but before that, I would like to ask some questions

1: how fragile are the figs, compared to let’s say, GW 28mm         

2:  along with my WHFB empire renaissance historical army, I ordered the dwarf starter army, and dwarf cannon, and 10 hobgoblins. Will said fantasy figs look right next the historicals (why I would order a handful of hobgoblins in the same breath as Dwarfs and historical? Why because This is my first miniature order in years, and my very first 10mm, and so I am aiming for diversity)

3: for someone who never really tried to paint, how hard should painting my army to a decent standard be? And what kind of paint should I use (this is the most important question. I realized today that I have 160 figures comeing in the mail and I don’t have the faintest idea on what to do when I get them. the number alone is a bit intimidating.

Thanks for all the advice. Expect to see my progress reports soon!

[fred.]

Generally the figures are pretty robust. While they are naturally thinner than 28mm figures they are smaller so are stronger. Long spears and lances can be a bit delicate.

The humans in the Fantasty ranges are a bit bigger than historicals, but not so much as to be unusable together. And as hare getting Dwarves and hobgoblins who is to say exactly how big they should be in proportion to each other.

Painting - don't go for too much detail, as it can get a bit messy. The figures respond well to strong highlights or shading. Whether you choose washes or dry brushing is up to you.

[fred.]

Oh and 160 10mm figures isn't too many...

[KOVAV]

thanks for the advice. any begginner 10mm turotials you can link me too. (sorry for my lack of creativity but I have litterally never painted any of my figs, I just have bought them already painted.  I dont even know where to start. and that has to change if my quest to recreate the armies of WHFB with non GW 10mm is to succeed)

[Luddite]

1: how fragile are the figs, compared to let’s say, GW 28mm         

Depends really.  IF you say GW 28mm metal fisg, well the GW stuff is very robust (except at the glued joints that pretty much need pinning to make them stable.

Pendraken 10mm figs are for the most part very robust.  Plus being light, you can drop them from quite a height (or knock them off a table!) without fear of too much damage.
As with all ranges in all scales, the 'usual suspects' are a problem - ankles, spears, etc.  Although i've found Pendraken to be largely free of these typical problems.

2:  along with my WHFB empire renaissance historical army, I ordered the dwarf starter army, and dwarf cannon, and 10 hobgoblins. Will said fantasy figs look right next the historicals

Yep, should be fine.

In fact there can be quite a bit of variation in Pendraken ranges given the vast amount they offer and the fact that they use (and have used) lots of different sculptors.

For the ranges you've ordered:

'Historical' is a bit wide ranging really so difficult to comment, but i've found them mostly well proportioned.  I currently have (unpainted) a bunch of Roman cavalry which are quite 'robust' and some Saxon foot spearmen that seem a bit 'thin' by comparison.  Not so much as to be a problem though.

The Dwarfs are actually quite massive!  Not tall, but very squat, and heavy looking.  4 of them fill a 40x20mm base!  They definately live up to their 'wide as they are short' fantasy stereotype!

I've not got any hobgoblins (i don't think), but have a lot of orcs and goblins and they fit very well with the historical figures i've got.

3: for someone who never really tried to paint, how hard should painting my army to a decent standard be?

Not hard at all!!  Its easier to get a good result at 10mm than at 28mm as (especially for gaming), you really don't need 'detail'.  I find when painting i'm going for an overall 'colour effect'.  To give you an idea, i've just finished painting up an 72AP HotT Orc army (which took a total of 4 hours + PVA drying time).

1.  Black basecoat spray
2.  Dab the green onto the skin areas (you can be quite spaldash here)
3.  Boltgun metal brushed carefully on all the weapons, armour, metal etc.
4.  Flat coats of various browns, tans, off-whites, and reds for the clothing, again fairly roughly dabbed on
5.  'Devlan mud' thinned inkwash across the whole lot (this blends everything together and hides the rough edges)
6.  Table-ready figures done!

Simple.  And at 3-4 ft distance (the average viewing distance for figures on a tabletop, they're perfectly fine. 

And what kind of paint should I use (this is the most important question. I realized today that I have 160 figures comeing in the mail and I don’t have the faintest idea on what to do when I get them. the number alone is a bit intimidating.

Up to you really, but i use water-based acrylic paint, and almost exclusively GW paints.  They're expensive for sure, but they have a good range on tones and shades that mean i don't need to mix paints (i hate doing that).

Oh and as fred12df said 160 figures really isn't a lot in 10mm!! 

[KOVAV]

doesn't sound too bad. would this set: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod920008a 
be good start?

[nikharwood]

I'd avoid that set to be honest - apart from being way overpriced, I'm not certain that the thick foundation paints will be very friendly to use if you're new to painting [& to 10mm]...the principle of block colour painting & then washing to bring out the detail is sound, but you'd do better to source cheaper water-based acrylics [even craft store paints will work fine]

If you like the GW range of colours, Vallejo Game Color pretty-much mirrors that range & is much cheaper plus comes in nice eye-dropper bottles which keep better.

For some basic tips, hints etc have a wander through the Painting & Modelling section here [especially the Painting Diaries area] - and some of my basic techniques are on my wiki - here:

http://nikharwood.pbworks.com/w/page/7825400/10mm%20Painting%20

[KOVAV]

I'd avoid that set to be honest - apart from being way overpriced, I'm not certain that the thick foundation paints will be very friendly to use if you're new to painting [& to 10mm]...the principle of block colour painting & then washing to bring out the detail is sound, but you'd do better to source cheaper water-based acrylics [even craft store paints will work fine]If you like the GW range of colours, Vallejo Game Color pretty-much mirrors that range & is much cheaper plus comes in nice eye-dropper bottles which keep better.

For some basic tips, hints etc have a wander through the Painting & Modelling section here [especially the Painting Diaries area] - and some of my basic techniques are on my wiki - here:

http://nikharwood.pbworks.com/w/page/7825400/10mm%20Painting%20

REALLY!? awesome! no I am not partial to useing GW  at all. I think I will probably be taking a trip to my local craft store. once I get better at painting, I may invest in Vallejo and GW. thanks for the tutorails. now viewing diaries

[rexhurley]

REALLY!? awesome! no I am not partial to useing GW  at all. I think I will probably be taking a trip to my local craft store. once I get better at painting, I may invest in Vallejo and GW. thanks for the tutorails. now viewing diaries

You can get your Vallejo paint right here at Pendraken matey

[quasar42]

The dropper bottles are a bit a matter of personal taste. I prefer pots, but that's just me. The GW Foundation points are indeed quite thick but they do give excellent coverage, which is especially useful if you undercoat in black. If you take care, they work well on 10mm. I particularly like the flesh, stone, and red colors for a base coat.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

The figures are robust, I've lost a couple at the ankles1, but a dab or superglue and they're fine. I've dropped units from table height with no adverse effects.  There are loads of great painting tips around the forum (AndyMac and Nik have some of the best tips).
160 figures isn't too much, as long as you 'bulk paint', painting individulaly will send you spare!
Stick them on their bases or on coffee stirrers first, then paint in batches.

Whereas Coat D'arms have a great range, but some find them a bit watery at first, their inks are great! My paints are a mix of those (old) GW and Vallejo. Also, you can't beat Windsor & Newton Calligraphy ink at 50/50 dilution! 
Good luck!
Mad Lemmey

[KOVAV]

next pendraken order I make will include some vellejo. thanks for advice. so, by mass painting, you mean get large swathes of charecters one stage at a time? like I give ALL my guys an undercoat and then go on to the next stage, with all my guys, right?

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

That's about the picture sir!

[fred.]

I find that painting 1 or 2 units at a time works best, as a balance between production line speed and getting bored doing the same thing again and again. A unit for me is typical 30 infantry or 9-12 cavalry.

I would recommend hobby paints to start with, they have better coverage than craft paints. Vallejo are nice paints, GW are OK but expensive. Generally GW is readily available, and Vallejo needs mail ordeing.

[Last Hussar]

Welcome to the true wargame scale - every thing bigger is skirmish, any thing smaller is pointless!  

The most important thing about Pendraken (and a number of us can't stress this enough) is DON'T LOOK AT ANY OF THE FIGURES PAINTED BY NIK, or you will just want to curl up in a corner and cry!    (Ferchrissakes Nik - painting individual fingers is showing off)

1st - File the bottom of the bases.  Pendraken are very good for how little flash their is on the figures, but obviously there has to be a clipping point, and this seems to be underneath.  Given they are effectively N gauge - 2mm =1 foot even a little ridge is relatively huge.  Horses may well have a thin (wire thickness) vent from ground to belly and/or tail.  You may want to file/clip the sides of the base if basing is going to be a squeeze

My personal preference is grey spray undercoat, though If I can be bothered/remember I do black then grey (light coats)  This is because I find black eats the light, and detail can be hard to see, white is exactly the opposite.  Grey brings out the sculpting.  If you have a magnifier (2x) you will surprised at the detail.

I buy packs of self adhesive vinyl floor tiles - 30cm square ones.  Cut a strip off 1-2 cm wide and stick the figures on this for undercoating and painting - when you spray it leaves black spots where the figures were, which retain their stickiness for the whole painting process.

As others have said - organise into units and do whole units in one go - of course this depends on unit size - if you have units of 12 infantry, you may want to do 4 units at a go.  I am doing 36 man battalions, and I reckon 30-45 minutes per colour or item (this includes pick up and putting them down, watching the telly etc).  I have all the officers/drummers/etc in non-standard uniforms at the end - the change as a sort of reward  - after painting 30 identical men the variation breaks the monotony!

I do a lot of the main areas with nothing smaller than a Citadel 'normal' brush, with a fine for belts and lace. You'll be surprised how quick someof it is - torsos seem to take a bit longer, there tends to be a bit more detail there, but legs you'll take 2 or three strokes.  I use mainly GW paints, because the store is only a mile away, and in extremis I can give the money to the kids when they go.  I also use cheap artists acrylic, though you will want to add a drop of water, and keep the brush a bit wetter than normal because they are thicker.

I like the foundation paints - its the only red and yellow that covers first time.  The Knarloc Green is also spot on for Musket wielding Russians.

I usually do - Jacket - Trousers - flesh - hats - shoes and other black leather work - other accoutroments - weapon - base.  Sometimes I will do a (wooden therefore brown) weapon first, going over the hands AND face, then do the flesh a dry(ish) brush.  If you are comfortable doing washes then this works well.  I prefer Pendraken to OG for the reasons people give for liking OG - Pendraken are individual casts - this means you can get everywhere with a brush, and hold it at an angle that suits you.

I base on the floor tiles.  I put green hobby paper on the sticky side, then cut to size.  Though not as square as commercial bases, such as the Pendraken ones they are extremely thin, and also don't warp with waterbased paints or glue.  It also means I always have the right size just a few cuts away, without having to wait for the post.  I mix PVA with green paint, and spread on the paper side.  I then put a dab of superglue on the bottom of the figure and place on the tile.  Once all the figures are on I push it into flock, ensure it is all covered then leave 24 hours to dry.  I shake off the excess, then varnish the whole base - figures and flock.  Though many count on 5 in 40mm, I get 3 on 20mm frontage, 6 on 40mm

Like others say, 160 isn't that many 10mm to paint.  Obviously it depends on how much you like painting and how often you can do it.  A friend has the utility room in his house where he can leave stuff out, so he can always put in an odd 30 minutes when waiting for his wife!  My best is 3 battalions = 108 figures in 48 hours.

Here are mine at the '3 foot standard'


Austro-Prussian 019 by Last Hussar, on Flickr


Flank view by Last Hussar, on Flickr

The nice thing about 10mm is you can go that bit further this is my C in C


Austro-Prussian 005 by Last Hussar, on Flickr

That was effectively about £6 in total (though some figures are spares)- how much would a 28mm carriage cost!