Starting on 10mm for HOTT

[Sevej]

Hello guys,

I'm thinking of starting a HOTT army using Pendraken figures. Two days ago I sent an e-mail to Pendraken with some questions, and the reply came yesterday. It also suggested that I throw some of the questions on the forum to get more answers. So here I am.

I suppose an army list of what I'm trying to make will help put things to perspective. The first army I'm planning to build is a human army. It's a simple one:
1 x Hero (ELM38-Mounted General)
2 x Knights (ELM36-Mounted 14th Century Knights)
4 x Shooters (ELM32-Welsh Longbowmen)
4 x Spears (ELM26-Retinue Billmen Surcoats)

Note that I intend to put as much figures as possible into a base, based on HOTT rules.

And here are the questions:

1. How many cavalry figures (specifically the ones from ELM 36) would fit on a 40 x 30 mm base (they will be facing the 40mm side)?

2. Is it possible to reasonably put 8 infantry figures (2 ranks of 4 men) on 40 x 15mm base?

3. If bases are the only thing stopping number 2, is cutting the edges of the integrated bases with a standard hobby clipper possible?

4. Please take a look at this.
http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2009/02/10-mm-pendraken-early-imperial-roman.html
The bases look very thick, and I like them. How thick are they?

I don't mind figures bunched up together as long as they stand straight (not tilted sideways to make room).

Thank you 

[Nosher]

1. I put 3 to the same sized base but would imagine 4 could fit easily enough

2. I doubt it. I have just mounted 4 very skinny saxons to a 40x15 base and there wasnt much room

3. Cant help you with that one - sorry

4. I reckon they are 3mm thick

[Blaker]

Howdy Sevej, Welcome to 10mm HOTT with Pendraken minis.

I have been building Hott 10mm armies with Pendraken for about 7 years now and find them just fine to use on the standard 40mm frontage base.

Answers to your questions, I agree with Nosher's answers.

1. We put 3 per base but 4 could fit but they would be sideways, just doesnt look very well to us.

2. Five is about the max limit on a 40x15 base, still just doesnt look right, we stayed with 4 per.

3. Yes you can clip the minis' base but that still doesnt help.

4. However, if you go to the 40x20 for your Blades, and Spears, then you can fit 8 or 10 in two ranks like JavierAtWar did with his DBA army.  The bases look like Litko with are 3mm thick. We use those exclusively .

Have fun and if you have more questions, fire away 

[Leon]

Cough...cough... MDF bases: http://www.pendraken.co.uk/MDF-Bases-c28/

[Sevej]

Hmm... 

If I extend the base depth to 20mm, are you sure that 8 figures will fit?

1. We put 3 per base but 4 could fit but they would be sideways, just doesnt look very well to us.

What do you mean by sideways? Aren't cavalry units normally arranged sideways on bases?

Also, I'm thinking of making my HOTT bases all at 40x20mm and 40x40mm. On 40x40mm, would 6 horses on two rows fit? But they have to be like ::: instead of ',',', (the horses on the back row exactly behind the horses on the front row). Having exclusively 20mm, 40mm, and 60mm depth bases would make the army more tidy on display.

Sorry, if it seems that I demand definite answers. It's just everything from UK take 3-4 weeks to get here, and with casting time, I can easily expect 1.5 to 2 months.

Cough...cough... MDF bases: http://www.pendraken.co.uk/MDF-Bases-c28/

Don't worry Leon, these are pretty high on my list  . I have long admired Litko stuff, but shipping cost from the US is prohibitive. You know... living in a third world country and all...

[Blaker]

Steve, MDF bases work great     Didnt know where you were located 

When I said sideways I meant instead of the infantry having their chest pointing to the front of the base, one of their shoulders is pointing to the front of the base - blah looks bad 

Yes, with a 40x20 for infantry you can fit 8 (2 rows of 4) or 10 (2 rows of 5) on it just fine.  The 40x40 for cavalry will hold 6 (2 rows of 3) on the base just fine and one behind the other. But the knights have lances levelled, then the back row might have to be angled a bit to allow the lance to not hit the horse in front.  As long as you tell you opponent what they are the expanded base depth should not be a problem.

[Hurrah]

Conventional wisdom round here is to use the base sizes recomended for 20-25mm figures and put more figures on the base (at least twice as many as recomended). It now pleasingly looks like a genuine unit rather than a representation. 

[Arsenus]

I use 40X20 mm base for spears, blades and shooters.
Cavalry are three on one base.

Do you want to see more?
http://arsenus.blog.free.fr/index.php?tag/HOTT

[Sevej]

Conventional wisdom round here is to use the base sizes recomended for 20-25mm figures and put more figures on the base (at least twice as many as recomended). It now pleasingly looks like a genuine unit rather than a representation.

I gave this a long, hard thought. Finally decided not to because I really like the compact nature of the game (24" square) and I simply cannot afford it (I have plans to make *gulp* 10 horde bases in the future).

Do you want to see more?
http://arsenus.blog.free.fr/index.php?tag/HOTT

Great armies! That's what I like from HOTT, you can have wildly various armies and be creative about each of it. Hell, I'm thinking of plucking my 28mm space marines off their round bases and base them for HOTT.

Ah, I also want to ask about basing. Non-vehicle Pendraken minis all have integral bases. So I'll need some modelling sands to get nice, gentle mounds. I see Pendraken sells several kinds of modelling sand. How many base would each of this package cover (roughly), and has anyone got any picture to help me decide which to get?

[Last Hussar]

First some Pictures.

These are War Spanish Succession for Black Powder
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/sets/72157625282250497/

Infantry are 2 rows of 3 on a 20mm base
Cavalry are on 25mm bases.  However 2 on 20mm is possible- my opponent does it that way so all his bases are the same size.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/sets/72157626970021933/
Game in progress (sorry these are from my phone, so not as good). Note my opponent uses 4 men bases.  Obviously it works out 2/3rds the cost, but I think my mass effect looks better.

These are ECW
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/sets/72157621671630377/with/3749660905/
Different bases - all are 30mm frontage.  I get 16 pikemen (4x4) on a 30mm base, or 6 horse on 30 x 40mm deep

For Warmaster I get 6 per row in 2 rows on a 40x20 base.  My mates tend to do 5 x 2.  However again I think the effort is worth it- Roman shieldwalls look so much better with no gaps (Sorry no Photos)

What we did for BP is just read all 'inches' as 'cm', as we use 10s not 28s

[Last Hussar]

As to bases, I use vinyl floor tiles. These are really thin - a 3mm base as used for 28s is really noticable on 10s, while tiles are a mm or less First I put green paper on the sticky side, then I cut with a guillotine.  Yes it is  more effort, but it means that i always have the size bases I want.

To glue
put some PVA into a mixing tray (I use bottle lids from the recycling- they are being thrown anyway).  I mix in some (about 3:1 glue/paint) cheap green paint - the kind sold in 250mm bottles for kids-.  Spread on the base, not thinly, be generous.  Then a dab of Superglue on the base of the figure (which of course you files BEFORE painting, didn't you- if you are feeling conciencious file the edges flat), and place on the base.  Give it a good 'squidge' into the PVA so it helps blend the base into the glue.  When you have all the figure on the base - hopefully you worked quickly enough to get them all on before the PVA dried - push through the flock/basing material etc, GENTLY shaking so it gets all over the base.

Leave 24 hours then spray varnish.

I find the trick is the placement of the first figure.  You want to put it in a corner, making sure the "figure base" edges are flush with the base edge.  You can then use this as a guide for figures 2 and 3 (behind and side).  Figure 4 then has a natural pocket.  OR work across one rank, then use that to guide the 2nd rank.  You can get

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/4620308876/in/set-72157623965963123/
- Hover over the photo for the tag boxes.

[Sevej]

Thank you for the comparison picture 

I somehow get the notion that Pendraken's fantasy range is a little bigger than their historical counterparts.

BTW... last night I browsed the gallery and painting diaries. I noticed nikhardwood prefer to prebase before painting. I've done both for 28mm stuff with individual bases, but I can't imagine it for 10mm, especially with close ranks I do think he's somekind of wizard, but I'd like to hear from the others about prebasing vs basing after painting.

[Blaker]

Nope Sevej you are correct, Nik is some kind of demon spawn painting wizard placed upon this earth to mock the rest of us as we labor to paint the same size army for days, weeks even months and Nikaroo does it in maybe 2 nights while watching cricket on the tellie and downing a pint or two   

Yes most of the Fantasy range is a bit - wider -  than the historical ranges, so getting less on the same frontage.

[Last Hussar]

Nope Sevej you are correct, Nik is some kind of demon spawn painting wizard placed upon this earth to mock the rest of us as we labor to paint the same size army for days, weeks even months and Nikaroo does it in maybe 2 nights while watching cricket on the tellie and downing a pint or two   

And when you remark on the detail, it turns out he paints the eyes with a 2 inch brush.

[Blaker]