Alexandrian/Greek/Successor Armies

[gregdman]

Hello all!

I am currently trying to assemble an ancient army in the alexandrian greek/successors era.
Which Pendraken minis (or combination of minis) do you think would best represent the following troops?

My "descriptions" were assembled from researching a variety of sources including DBA, WMA and FOG (plus wiki to fill in the blanks).
I'd like to be as historically accurate as possible, so if you think I have something wrong (weapons, armor), please let me know!

Mounted:
"Macedonian" Companion Cavalry ("Hetaroi") = Elite mounted, used a "Xyston" 2 handed thrusting spear, heavily armored, but no shield.
"Thessalian" Heavy Cavalry ("Thessalikoi") = Light Spear and Sword, armored.  Nobility of Thessaly
"Thracian" Light Horse ("Prodromoi") = javelin, light spear, argive shield, bronze helmet, linen or leather armor
Elephants = most interested in something appropriate for later Successor armies

Foot:
"Iphikratean" Hoplites  = 12' spear in one hand (underhand), helmet, shield (strapped to neck, held in one hand), linen cuirass, sword
"Hypastists", elite Hoplites = shield, light armor, thrusting spear, javelins (versatile, quick = used as light infantry or phalanx)
"Pezhetairoi", "Phalangites", Foot Companions = "Sarissa" ~17' spear/pike, short sword, armor, light shield
"Agrianian" Javelinmen, Greek Peltasts = lightly-armed infantry man armed with a bundle of javelins and a wicker shield
"Rhodian" Slingers = skirmishers, used lead bullets & slings (up to 380 yard range!)
"Cretan" Archers = elite bowmen...  also Macedonian bowmen.

Mounted and Foot Generals appropriate for alexandrian greeks/successors

Question: Is there more than one pose per mini?  i.e. does GRE1 hoplite come in just the one pose on the website, or a variety?

Thanks for your suggestions!
Greg from California

[FierceKitty]

Bear in mind that the prodromoi were not Thracians and carried a lance like the Hetairoi, and that the phalangites may well have been virtually unarmoured.

[gregdman]

Bear in mind that the prodromoi were not Thracians and carried a lance like the Hetairoi, and that the phalangites may well have been virtually unarmoured.

Great feedback... thank you for educating me... that's exactly the type of information I am looking for.

So I am clear, "Thracian Light Horse" (as described in FOG rules) are a different type of cavalry unit (skirmishers) than "Prodromoi"? 
In gaming terms (DBA, WMA, FOG, WAB, etc.) would Prodromoi be more of a Medium or Heavy Cavalry unit (similar to Thessalian Heavy Cavalry?)

As to the "phalangites", am I correct in placing them in the same category as "pezhetairoi"? 

Wiki has phalangites wearing a breastplate and helm for armor plus a shield (suspended from the neck to cover the left shoulder) and a sarissa (which requires the use of both hands).  Is the breastplate armor and helm wiki says was worn overstating what is known?  Or perhaps only the front and side troops wore the breastplate and the rest wore linen and helms?  (Purely a guess: that might make the most of the limited armor resources and perhaps more importantly allow the troops to travel faster vs. everyone being armored, accounting for quick marches of Alexander's armies).

Thanks again for help with all of this, it's a lot of fun. 

-Greg from California



Thank you!

[FierceKitty]

I'm not an expert, but I  think several sources point out that there is no hard evidence for any metal body armour in the phalangite ranks (and yes, they are the same as the pezeratoi, which I've probably spelled wrongly, but it's been a long and very hot day). It's likely that they would have had linothoraxes or padded cuirasses, since even thureophoroi (the oval-shield peltast types) were going that way, and of course the e silentio argument is always treacherous; lack of evidence doesn't prove non-existence, or we might have outgrown religion by now!
  I think Thracian cavalry were usually javelin-armed, perhaps with a few horse archers; prodromoi tended to attack in support on the heavier cavalry, and before Alexander's death had probably concerted in full-scale heavies. Check out Phil Barker's book; it's less irritating than some of his other writing.

[FierceKitty]

of

[Gandalf]

Phil Barker's Armies of the Macedonioan and Punic Wars http://www.amazon.co.uk/Armies-Macedonian-Punic-Wars-Barker/dp/B001C42UCE/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310049263&sr=1-3 is a useful source of information if you can get a hold of a copy.
It is more than forty years old but as Fierce Kitty says, it is has stood the test of time fairly well.

[Sandinista]

Found an entire downloadable copy online, but have discovered that copyright lasts 70 years so have deleted link to site.

[FierceKitty]

converted. These typoes would be less alarming were I not a university English teacher!

[gregdman]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions, I appreciate them all.  I'm definitely going to check out the book, it sounds like a very good resource for what I am trying to do.

-Greg

[Gandalf]

No problem.  I think the "Armies and Enemies" series was reprinted not long ago so it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of a copy.  I'll check which figure codes have variations when I'm next in the workshop. 

[Gandalf]

All the GRE codes are signle poses apart from GRE11 which has three variations. http://www.pendraken.co.uk/GRE11-p2735/ I hope that helps.

[Hargon]

I ordered a bunch of GRE11 a while ago and I'm preparing them for beeing units of Macedonian Phalanx: there are four variations of them - at least there were 4 variations sent to me (one not shown in the picture).

[Gandalf]

I stand corrected.  It's a bit difficult just looking at the mould to tell if there is a difference between similar poses.

[gregdman]

What color paints do you all recommend for armies in this era?  I've been told to use brighter than normal colors for 10mm scale...
flesh = tone?
white = linen or ?
gotta have red, but what shade?
what about using gold for bronze colors (to make it stand out)?
silver for metallic?
etc.

Any and all suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
Greg

[Blaker]

Instead of white I use linen and antique ivory. then drybrush with seashell white, gives good enough brightness to a white cloth that isnt blazing white to the eyes.

For flesh, I use a color called :  chocolate brown, basically a reddish  light brown other than the yellowish or greenish tones of brown.

But now a question for the forum, what figures would work for Thracian foot types?

thanks