'First Look' at the new League of Augsburg range!

[Chad]

Bill

We simply put it on the shelf for the time being and moved to other periods. No point in wasting time painting figures if you don't have a complete range to game.

Chad

[Wkeyser]

Hi Chad
Yes that is the result, they sit unpainted gathering dust. The real danger is that other projects get the cash and time that I would have allocated to this period. This means that even if the Cavalry arrive I might not jump on them  because I am now working on other projects.

This is a constant problem with Pendraken, I know the reason is sculptor’s time and availability; however, this is one of the only negatives to an otherwise great mini company.

I advocated a number of years a customer financed 10mm French Rev Project which I got accepted by Eureka then was cancelled, I had the funding dedicated by a number of gamers but Eureka’s sculptor could not commit to the time involved. But here is a new twist, this method of "Kickstart" is now being used with great success by a number of fantasy/Sci fi companies to laucnh boardgames.

So my call to Pendraken is look at the Kickstart model and use it for finishing this range and also do the 10mm French Rev range with Clib as the sculptor. I know we can get the money pledged for this. So come on be the leader in the industry and jump into a new model of creating ranges.

William

[Techno]

It's obviously Leon and Dave's train set.....So their decision entirely.

But for what it's worth, one of the other companies I make soldiers for (in a different scale) is going to go down the kickstarter route.
It DOES seem to be really catching on now, which personally I think is a really good thing !
I know, in a way, that's slightly selfish ....as the easier it is for companies to fund 'new' projects....the easier it is for myself and my fellow designers to find things to make for folk.

As banks now seem SO loathe to lend anything to almost everyone, the kickstarters are an excellent way of funding projects.
And (I assume)....there's no crippling interest to pay on the 'loan'....Though I guess someone's making money out of this ??

Cheers - Phil.

[Chad]

Bill

Like you I have absolutely no complaint about Pendraken as a whole, but also like you I am frustrated.

I would be quite happy to order and pay for what I want from the LoA range. All I would need is information on what was in the pipeline as regards cavalry and artillery; I also want more infantry. At least then I couldn't divert my funds into other areas. I'm sure my wargame mate would be quite happy to do the same.

What is more frustrating is that some ranges have started and finished during the time LoA has been in progress.

In hope.

Chad

[Leon]

I can understand the frustration, but hopefully the recent arrival of the AWI cavalry shows that the LoA cavalry will appear as well at some point.  Clib's 10mm time is limited though, so things take a little longer than ranges done by other sculptors.

All I would need is information on what was in the pipeline as regards cavalry and artillery; I also want more infantry.

The artillery crews are done, so we just need to get the guns sorted.

This is a constant problem with Pendraken, I know the reason is sculptor’s time and availability; however, this is one of the only negatives to an otherwise great mini company.

I advocated a number of years a customer financed 10mm French Rev Project which I got accepted by Eureka then was cancelled, I had the funding dedicated by a number of gamers but Eureka’s sculptor could not commit to the time involved.

I would hardly call it a constant problem?  Let's not forget that the French Rev range currently in the catalogue was originally done to your specification for you, but you never backed it up with any purchases?  So there is a certain reluctance to go down that road again.

So my call to Pendraken is look at the Kickstart model and use it for finishing this range and also do the 10mm French Rev range with Clib as the sculptor. I know we can get the money pledged for this. So come on be the leader in the industry and jump into a new model of creating ranges.

Kickstarter is a non-starter in this scale and with a niche range, we've discussed this before.  If you wanted a basic range of 20 codes, say 3 poses per pack, plus moulding, we're looking at over £2000 of costs.  Then you've got to factor in all the discounted figures you then have to supply to the people who have pledged into the range.  By the time you've included all that metal, and the time to cast them all up, you're way up past £4000 needed just to cover everything.

That's a lot of money, and I seriously doubt we'd get pledges anywhere near that.

And as a final point, which I mentioned on TMP a long time ago, you want the range to be done by Clibinarium?  So a Kickstarter is again no use, as he wouldn't have the spare sculpting time to get the figures done in a realistic timeframe for the backers.

[Wkeyser]

Hold on Leon when we did start that project it was with the specific requirement that we whould approve the greens before they where put into production, that was not the case, all of a sudden those dwarfs with bicorns showed up on my door step

I was responsible for the money of a number of gamers to the tune of 5.000 USD back in I guess around 2000. The brief for you was to reproduce the quality that the test figure from Eureka had. Those French Rev Figs did not come close, that is why when I sent photos of the actual figures to my backers they where really disappointed and where not willing to spend the money on what all felt where substandard figures when compared to the Eureaka figure.


However, since then your quality of figures, has risen dramatically and now both Clibs work and number of other sculptors you use are second to none in the 10mm world.

If the quality of those French Rev figures would have been close to what was expected by me and my backers the range would have gotten a shot in the arm of about 5.000 USD up front. It was a Kickstart project before its time.

I can still not figure out why you are not willing to go with this project with a funding pledge from gamers. I know that most of the original gamers have moved on to other projects, however, I still firmly believe that this project could be gotten off the ground by you guys. I realize that taking money from backers with the promise of figures is a scary proposal but I think all you would have to do is say as we originally intended that the project had one year to be completed, and that if in the unlikely event it fell through the money would have to be put to existing figures from other ranges.

And yes I think that money can stll be rasied, I am still intrested if I give you a list of figures you give me the amount you need and I will try and get it done. As to Clib, I am sure that if we gave him one year for the range, and the money he would need I think he would have the time for it as it would be a good amount of money up front, a good block of steady work for a year is what any freelance sculptor would want.

So sorry no those French Revs where not what was agreed upon and there is no way I would purchase figures of such a low standard, while you and Dave put out such great figures in other ranges.

William

[Wkeyser]

Here is photo to show what we where looking for the fully painted one and the figures I recived.

[Leon]

Firstly, I think that pic shows the figure in a rather worse light than in reality.  Without getting into this too much, no-one communicated to us that the figures weren't what you were looking for, so we continued paying out for sculpts/moulds.  After a large outlay, which was over and above our regular design budget, no one was buying, so we stopped the sculpting, and the range was left unfinished.  When Dave was running the business as a part-time/hobby outfit back then, that was a lot of money to be out of pocket.

The question has to be raised, if Eureka did a test-figure which you were happy with, why didn't they go ahead with the full range?  With $5000 sat waiting, surely they'd have grabbed it with both hands?

I can still not figure out why you are not willing to go with this project with a funding pledge from gamers.

We've been over this several times: a) because we don't like taking people's money in advance for a lot of reasons, unforeseen delays, more deadlines to hit, etc.  And b) because you want Clib to do the range, when he's already busy with other things for us and many other companies.  We could get another sculptor to do it, but you've said that wouldn't do, so there's not a lot of options left?

[clibinarium]

Perhaps its best to draw a line under the previous proceedings on the French Revolution range, what's done is done. It was before my time with Pendraken and I don't know the ins and outs of it.

It might help clarify things generally if I explain how I relate to Pendraken. Dave gave a leg up when I began sculpting, and 10mm is my chosen scale for my own collection. When I moved to full time professional sculpting it became clear that 15mm and up was where my daily bread was going to come from. Because I loved 10mm it was informally agreed that anything I sculpted would be produced by Pendraken initially for an exchange of figures, then for a small fee since Dave felt bad about not paying me anything, though I did resist being paid at all for a while as it felt like charging a friend. This suited everyone; Pendraken got my sculpts, I got the sculpts produced and a bit of money, all was happy. Now that system has some downsides. It meant that my 10mm work had to fit into the gaps between the bigger scale work, which put food on the table. It also means that I had total control over a range's content; that is both good and bad. Good in that the ranges are wide in scope, and bad for the same reason. Imagine you were able to create your dream range for a period; sounds great? Well don't forget how carried away you'll get with all sorts of odds and ends you'll want to add, and suddenly the list of figures gets very long. So while I do ranges thoroughly it takes me a while.
Contrast that with other ranges, they are done differently. Dave and Leon draw up a specific list, commission a sculptor and the list is completed relatively swiftly. Less variants perhaps, but all you need.

Recently we changed things a bit over the AWI and LoA cavalry. Leon asked to get the essentials done at the going rate. That suited us both since Leon could stop having his ears bent with calls for cavalry, and I could put the cavalry into a proper design time slot and get them knocked out. Hence AWI cavalry (though me being me I did more variants than were asked for and threw them in for free). The same would have gone for the LoA horse, but I simply had run out of horse dollies and could go no further,(in retrospect adding more variants to those AWI cavalry didn't help that) and unfortunately I couldn't get the first pack done for the December releases. Leon is in the process of sending me more, but the logistics of Christmas orders makes thing a bit more difficult. As soon as we get round that LoA horse will begin to appear in the new year. Its just logistics that the problem at the moment, everyone is willing and able to continue.

[Dave]

On the original French Rev range, master castings were sent out, no reply/response was received, so I went ahead and moulded the figures.  When no orders came I chased up the reason to find that you did not like the figures.  This is a period I would like to do, but will be done to my time frame and decision making on the codes, Clib is interested but can only start once the AWI and LoA ranges are competed.  Clib did set up a yahoo group on the 10mm revolutionary period range but interest was very poor, hence decision to look at other periods.

Dave

[Steve J]

I had a chat with Leon at Colours whilst looking at the Falklands range up close and personal. Without going into too much detail, there is a wide price difference per figure charged by the various sculptors used by Pendraken. This means on some of the ranges they will do well over time to cover their costs, as they are very much for a niche market. (See Dave's comment below with regards the French Revolutionary range interest). My main interest is WWII and I would love Pendraken to make a Polish range, but would there be enough interest to justify them making such an investment? I would love to think so, but I doubt it. The interest always seems to be in late War in my experience.

Now I'm a professional modelmaker with 26 + years experience and if I were to charge 'normal' rates (c. £50 per hour) to make a vehicle for Pendraken, I doubt very much whether they would ever be able to recupe their investment, talk less of making a profit. As and when time allows I take the same view as Clib and charge them a nominal fee in return for figures as I don't have the time to commit to producing a vehicle to order by a certain date.

[William]

Glad to see you chime in Clib.  Now armed with more information (although you did not need to disclose all this, but appreciate you did) I will try to stop bugging you about the cavalry and artillery at the end of every month.

I never was really certain how sculpters go about getting and doing commissions, and all the in's and out's, sort of speak, which transpire along those lines.  I think, however, for fans of Clib's work, that it is too much of a tease to come out with this large release of LoA infantry in a relatively short period of time, and then seeing what your skills are with regards to the cavalry in "the other" (28mm) LoA range, and be disappointed in not having something for Pendraken in the same time.  Certainly most are aware the money for sculpters is in the larger stuff, and as a working artist, no one can blame you.

Simply speaking, I, like many perhaps, can be impatient, and could argue why the first releases of the LoA range could not be a small release of each of infantry, cavalry, and artillery.  Although, making sense from a marketing view, it is not feasable, and working within one basic dolly (rather it be infantry, horse, or cannon) is much easier, and able to pull off more codes with variation.

I will await paitiently, and just check the 1st of every month, and will resist the temtation to bug you  

William

[Dave]

I do have plans to do the Poles, Belgiums etc for ww2, I've overloaded the vehicle designer with ww1 stuff for release (hopefully) middle of next year, at moment working on putting more ww2 Italians stuff out so much stuff so little money which is why I still work full time and cast every night to 11ish!!!!!!!

Dave

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Grreat insight from all sides as to how it works. Makes me feel guilty I've not spent money this month (yet)...

[Steve J]

I do have plans to do the Poles, Belgiums etc for ww2

Glad to hear it Dave .