Secondary ATGW

[Christopher]

Can someone explaine to me why dedicated ATGWs should be so much better than secondary ATGWs? I asume a support ATGW is secondary so for instance a TOW support is 160 while a TOW on landroveren is only 40 points more but has so much more potential.

Cheers
Christopher

[Big Insect]

It's to do with a combination of a number of very different factors Christopher.

1). Dedicated ATGW usually has many more reloads - this applies especially to INF:ATGW v SP:ATGW
2). Often the crews are trained on their weapon specifically - whilst in a secondary role, the ATGW is important but not the primary weapon (a Soviet BMP is a good example of this)
3). Dedicated ATGW vehicles have often specifically been designed to maximize the ATGW weapons effectiveness - for example to hit/acquire targets on a wider arc of fire (so a US Sheridan's gun elevation would not allow it to fire its barrel launched MGM-51 Shillelagh at a helicopter in flight) but also tank launched ATGWs are just able to track very agile targets in the same way that a dedicated ATGW launch vehicle can.
4). Dedicated ATGW vehicles often had far more sophisticated ranging and tracking systems that secondary ones just don't.
5). Actual field evidence from both Soviet and NATO shows that secondary ATGWs were just not as effective as dedicated ATGW units - hence why the soviets removed barrel launched ATGWs from their BMP-3s (in the end) and the US dropped its M60 Starship & Sheridan gun launched ATGWs (as did the Soviets)

From a game-play perspective there is also the fact that players don't have to take into account the tactical doctrine of their forces (to any great extent) or the cost-effectiveness of their weapons.
In a game, if all ATGWs fired as 'Dedicated' players end up shooting them at just about anything that moves! Trust me, in our play-tests that is exactly what happened!
But are you really going to 'waste' your once a game-turn shot with a secondary ATGW at an enemy jeep or truck? Probably not. In reality that ATGW weapon costs a fortune and its primary role was to destroy enemy armour at  longer range than a standard MBT gun (typically).
You'd only use it on a threat that was really high priority, if that threat was not an MBT or AFV.
It's a bit like what is going on in the Red Sea at the moment (for example) - hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of £/$/Euros of anti-air missiles, being used to shoot down, at best, a few 10s of thousands of pounds worth of drones (hmmm, and who thought it was a good idea to remove Vulcan phalanxes from our warships  ).

The points cost in the rules are not just about the weapons capabilities. They also cover the number of 'lives'/hits the unit can take & if it has saves and how many. The Landrover/Jeep mounted TOW (whilst carrying more reloads than an INF:ATGW TOW) also only has 3 hits, whilst the INF:ATGW usually has 5. Both have no saves, so that Landrover/Jeep TOW is actually very vulnerable. Admittedly the Landrover has a longer move than the INF:ATGW but only marginally usually and both are small/low profile targets.
NB: there is currently a review underway around all the points costs. I don't know what the outcome will be around INF:ATGW v SP:ATGW, but usually Support ATGWs are secondary (as are those mounted in or on AFVs) and those in the main ATGW section are 'Dedicated'. Dedicated units also suffer no penalties for Command distance when being Commanded - again this is a game mechanism to encourage players to use them as they would/might have been used in reality (at the rear of the battlefront - firing at long-range).

Hopefully that is helpful?
Thanks
Mark
 

[Christopher]

Thank you for our answer Mark. It was just what i was looking for. Now it makes a lot more sence.

[Gwydion]

Mark - are you sure about the Phalanx being withdrawn from RN vessels?
Babcock just announced (November 2023) it had won a three year contract to maintain and upgrade the CIWS on RN vessels, including the carriers and Type 45s.
Goalkeeper has been phased out but I am not aware of plans to abandon Phalanx.

[Big Insect]

Mark - are you sure about the Phalanx being withdrawn from RN vessels?
Babcock just announced (November 2023) it had won a three year contract to maintain and upgrade the CIWS on RN vessels, including the carriers and Type 45s.
Goalkeeper has been phased out but I am not aware of plans to abandon Phalanx.

I meant Goalkeeper  Thanks Gwydion
Both are cheaper ways of destroying drones than ship-to-air missiles, but only if the drones are actually aimed at the vessels carrying them. They wont work against drones aimed at other ships of course.