FWCII - notice of 'work underway' & request for Errata & Suggested Changes.

[Big Insect]

This is an advance notice that we are now starting work (in earnest) on FWCII.

Fear not FWCI fans ... this is not a radicle overhaul, but more as we've done with BKCIV and CWCII, an evolution rather than a revolution.

The intention is to clear up any longstanding rules/mechanism errata, add many more and clearer diagrams and examples and add a few extra mechanism that will bring the rules more 'up to date' (so to speak).

Areas which I have already identified for consideration are:

1) Massive units - making them more viable and 'realistic' (more lives, more weapons etc.)
2) Adding in a Large profile unit category - between Ordinary/Average and Massive
3) Adding a Small profile unit category -below Ordinary/Average
4) Improving and clarifying the Shield and Shield Dome mechanisms
5) Adding in UAVs (drones)
6) Adding in more about Electronic Warfare and Defenses
7) Adding in new defensive armour types that have appeared as one-off special rules within certain lists (such as Reactive Armour and Exotic Alloy defences etc.)
8 ) Autonomous Weapons
... etc.
Some of the mechanisms from CWCII that were actually improved FWC mechanism will be transferred back to FWCII (if that makes sense).

Please use this thread to add your own thoughts and suggestions. Errata would be particularly welcome.

NB: I'll start a separate thread around Army Lists - as there are some challenges around copyright with many of these and we'll probably need the FWC player community to assist with converting some of these to the new FWCII format.
Many thanks - in anticipation - for your active participation 

Mark

[Kiwidave]

Suggested Change: ban Kraytonians (especially Steve's pink ones)

[flamingpig0]

This is an advance notice that we are now starting work (in earnest) on FWCII.

]

[flamingpig0]

Suggested Change: ban Kraytonians (especially Steve's pink ones)

Sadly, I don't think you can buy them anymore

[Big Insect]

Sadly, I don't think you can buy them anymore

True - but almost as 'sadly', that wont stop him playing with them, unfortunately     

[Grumbeast]

AWESOME NEWS MARK!!!

I'm excited about the autonomous weapons, more electronic battlefield stuff, plus I think we have to ratchet the exotic up a little bit as modern stuff starts getting close to FWC.

On a related note, not afraid of Steve's Pink Krayty boys anymore, he can't reach me way out here on the left coast even with stupid hovering pulsing toy tanks

Graham

[dylan]

Great news!

Some initial thoughts for things to clarify/correct:
1) Fully explain how opp fire works against initiative units using stabilisation to Move and Fire or Fire and Move.  (i.e. clarify when the opp fire takes place in each circumstance).  Also clarify whether a shield-equipped unit which fires opp fire can regenerate its shields in the subsequent initiative phase after opp firing.
2) Consider introducing open-topped AFVs (as written, FWC1 does not have them).
3) Consider making FWC artillery work just like BKC artillery.  (as written, FWC1 had different artillery rules than the other books in the series for some reason relating to barrages versus concentration, and had ortillery hitting on better values than other artillery)  Also consider introducing special munitions from CWC into FWC (again, as written FWC1 didn't have any special munitions).  Also consider introducing MRL (as written, there are no MRLs in FWC1).
4) Clarify what happens if a sniper suppresses the CO of an army that only has the CO as a sole command unit (e.g. a 1000pt Marine or Kraytonian army)
4) Clarify who can fire at air target RECCE units. (such as a VTOL used for RECCE - can it be fired at by anyone, or only AA?)
5) Clarify whether Stealth is always on and at all times (including when suffering an assault from out of LOS) allows the owner to disappear into the reserve pool, or whether it requires an action to activate stealth during the turn.
6) Reconsider the many AFVs in the lists that are not IFVs but are given an infantry-carrying ability (e.g. neo-Soviet Vombat).  As written in FWC1 it was never clear how they were supposed to act in assaults - i.e. only IFVs can add their assault factors together with their troops.
7) Clarify how many spaces an IFV with its infantry inside takes up inside a Dropship/transport.
Clarify what happens when you have gunship versus gunship combat i.e. what weapons can they use on each other?  can they assault each other?
9) Clarify when any support units are moved during an assault i.e. is all movement of support units left until after the assaulting units have moved into contact and any response fire is taken against them?
10) Clarify whether infantry upgrades are separate weapons (so you list them separately and have to choose whether to fire them, or the original weapon) or are added to the original factors for a single new rating.
 

[Big Insect]

All good stuff dylan, thanks ... and all fairly easily rectified (he says - fingers-crossed        )

Shields have always been a bit contentious as they are such an advantage and are (relatively) cheap or very cost effective, depending upon your views. But with very little down-side.
There has been discussion for some time about allowing recharge as an Initiative action, for example. But whether that turns them into a 'super' defenses, needs to to weighed up carefully.
I also like the idea of a more 'Dune' universe approach to shields - so that they are susceptible to 'slow' attacks (similar to the 'Star Wars' universe approach as well) but I'm in two minds about the catastrophic consequences, to both attacker & defender, when lasers hit shields (kaboom!).

I'm also interested in expanding the Urban Combat aspects of FWC - especially around fortifications & bunkers. Currently its almost impossible to destroy certain troop types when holed-up in a bunker (for example).

Adding in Large profile units, and upgrading Massive profile units, will allow for a greater range of capabilities for the Massive units.

The intention with 'refreshing' the 3 existing Commander rules sets has always been to try for consistency across all core mechanisms and FWCII will be no exception.

Cheers
Mark

[fred.]

Shields have always been a bit contentious as they are such an advantage and are (relatively) cheap or very cost effective, depending upon your views. But with very little down-side.

I may be missing something here, but isn't an increase in the points cost the obvious fix?

I'm also interested in expanding the Urban Combat aspects of FWC - especially around fortifications & bunkers. Currently its almost impossible to destroy certain troop types when holed-up in a bunker (for example).

In BKC this can be pretty difficult. Hitting on 6s, suppressing on 6s, makes units in solid terrain very hard to shift even with huge amounts of fire power. 

[Big Insect]

I may be missing something here, but isn't an increase in the points cost the obvious fix?

Absolutely fred    There are a number of the 'special' weapons that need their points adjusting to better represent their actual abilities in the game, and defensive equipment needs a similar review.

In BKC this can be pretty difficult. Hitting on 6s, suppressing on 6s, makes units in solid terrain very hard to shift even with huge amounts of fire power.

Yes, I agree. But there's difficult and impossible and in FWC it can be closer to the latter. It's also a fine balance between 'reality' and the ability to have a game that actually works (& is fun). But as we are seeing in Chechnya, Syria and the Ukraine, and was also the case in Stalingrad etc. in WW2 - getting determined dug-in infantry out of Urban areas is a real challenge.
Cheers
Mark

[Grumbeast]

Great news!

5) Clarify whether Stealth is always on and at all times (including when suffering an assault from out of LOS) allows the owner to disappear into the reserve pool, or whether it requires an action to activate stealth during the turn.
 

This in particular I think was broken in FWC1 and was able to be exploited having an opponent fire and withdraw repeatedly effectively making the unit(s) in question unassailable. I think having it as an action to withdraw works better as it would introduce a decision, do I fire, move or vanish rather that fire AND vanish

G

[stevefprice]

True - but almost as 'sadly', that wont stop him playing with them, unfortunately     

I resent that remark. They are perfectly beatable as Alan has demonstrated.

  

[Big Insect]

I resent that remark. They are perfectly beatable as Alan has demonstrated.
  

Only if you are armed to the teeth with as many Smart Missiles as you can lay your hands on Steve.
And you do know that perfectly well     

[Shedman]

In my opinion the 3 Dark Realm Miniatures races, Pax Arcandian, Andrayadan & Kraytonian, were probably the most balanced of all of the sci-fi ranges covered by FWC.

Are any ranges, such as Epic (that's GW not Warlord), being covered by FWC2?

[Big Insect]

In my opinion the 3 Dark Realm Miniatures races, Pax Arcandian, Andrayadan & Kraytonian, were probably the most balanced of all of the sci-fi ranges covered by FWC.
Are any ranges, such as Epic (that's GW not Warlord), being covered by FWC2?

Hi Al.
The plan is to look at all the current FWC lists (including some of the newer PDF ones) and revamp them.
Some of them (the GW Epic 40k lists in particular) may end up having to be 'fan' created lists - due to potential copyright challenges. Pete seemed to get away with them, but that was in different times, and Pete was not a competing figure manufacturer.  But the intention is to allow players to create their own upgraded versions.

I would agree that all 3 of the Dark Realm lists you name were probably the most balanced - when played against themselves. It is when they were let loose on the wider FWC universe that challenges occurred. We don't mention the 4th Dark Realm list (Scythes) as it was almost too nasty to be played (IMHO). But I digress.
Somebody must surely have bought the masters for all the Dark Realm 6mm sci-fi stuff, but they just seem to have disappeared into a black-hole!

We also have other lists to be transposed across into FWCII - such as the now defunct Dropship Commander 'universe' and Grendel have also produced their own 6mm ranges as well. So for FWC II the intention is that all the lists will be on-line, some produced at 'Pendraken Towers', some by players, but having them all online helps editing them and resolving any errata. Pendraken has plans for an extensive 10mm sci-fi universe and these will (of course) feature strongly in the new army lists.

Cheers
Mark