monk or priest

[Sunray]

Is there a monk or priest in the ranges that would pass for Dark Ages Christian cleric?

[fsn]

Elm46?

NO6

elm37

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I know the CoE is church militant but think the armed ones are a tad too militant

[fred.]

I know the CoE is church militant but think the armed ones are a tad too militant

Is it?


I think these dudes pre-date the CoE by a couple of centuries anyway.

[Sunray]

Many thanks! What range is the ELM code from?

[paulr]

ELM = Medieval - Late European

I blame the French

[hammurabi70]

I understood that clerics used the mace or a cudgel so they did not shed blood; bladed weapons on such a figure are best avoided.

[Raider4]

I understood that clerics used the mace or a cudgel so they did not shed blood; bladed weapons on such a figure are best avoided.

I've never understood this argument. You hit someone over the head with a mace or cudgel - or even a stout bit of 2x4 - you should see a fair amount of blood.

[Ithoriel]

I was under the impression that the belief in the use of maces by clerics was entirely down to Bishop Odo being shown using one in the Bayeux Tapestry and that the continued belief in this has more to do with Dungeons and Dragons than history.

Apparently, under canon law, medieval priests were forbidden to act as soldiers on the battlefield and permitted only to carry a cudgel for self defence.

Of course you don't normally forbid something unless people are actually doing it so draw your own conclusions!

[steve_holmes_11]

I understood that clerics used the mace or a cudgel so they did not shed blood; bladed weapons on such a figure are best avoided.

I think that's a mis-reading popularised by Gary Gygax.

[steve_holmes_11]

I was under the impression that the belief in the use of maces by clerics was entirely down to Bishop Odo being shown using one in the Bayeux Tapestry and that the continued belief in this has more to do with Dungeons and Dragons than history.

Apparently, under canon law, medieval priests were forbidden to act as soldiers on the battlefield and permitted only to carry a cudgel for self defence.

Of course you don't normally forbid something unless people are actually doing it so draw your own conclusions!

See also, the Crossbow ban.

[Sunray]

ELM = Medieval - Late European

I blame the French

Thanks Paul!

[hammurabi70]

I've never understood this argument. You hit someone over the head with a mace or cudgel - or even a stout bit of 2x4 - you should see a fair amount of blood.

I agree; a bit dubious but perhaps it is all about intent.  Which makes the whole ethos of fighting clerics a bit dubious.  Then again perhaps the vikings gave people a change of perspective.

Medieval European canon law said that a priest could not be a soldier, and vice versa. Priests were allowed on the battlefield as chaplains, and could only defend themselves with clubs.

Which must have been side-stepped by the military orders somehow, militant monks indeed!  No limitation on weaponry for them and a very robust view on fighting.  In which case, in what way would a cleric in arms appear different to any other combatant?

[FierceKitty]

...in what way would a cleric in arms appear different from any other combatant?

The distinctive battle-cry "For what you are about to receive...."

[mollinary]

I agree; a bit dubious but perhaps it is all about intent.  Which makes the whole ethos of fighting clerics a bit dubious.  Then again perhaps the vikings gave people a change of perspective.

Medieval European canon law said that a priest could not be a soldier, and vice versa. Priests were allowed on the battlefield as chaplains, and could only defend themselves with clubs.

Which must have been side-stepped by the military orders somehow, militant monks indeed!  No limitation on weaponry for them and a very robust view on fighting.  In which case, in what way would a cleric in arms appear different to any other combatant?

But, as far as I recall, monks were not ordained priests, and therefore none of this would apply to them?