CWC-II Army List Errata/Suggestions (Open)

[Big Insect]

I was outraged they don't feature in "The Rings of Power"

Yes, indeed. They were there, but just didn't feature anywhere near the actual combat and Tolkien might, or might not, have not written about them.
So we are safe to exclude them from the action (& army lists) - although Weta have sculpted a model and GW are about to sell it, in packs of 200, at a bargain price of course. However, even though there are stats in the books you are banned from playing with them in all GW tournaments.

I hope that clears things up a bit?

Any way, why do Hobbits have Irish accents and Dwarfs Scottish ones? Isn't that ethnic stereotyping?  (I shall start I new Rings of Power thread - to stop this VIP thread getting clogged up with 'fluff' (& that is as much my fault as anybody elses) !
 

[flamingpig0]

Any way, why do Hobbits have Irish accents and Dwarfs Scottish ones? Isn't that ethnic stereotyping?  (I shall start I new Rings of Power thread - to stop this VIP thread getting clogged up with 'fluff' (& that is as much my fault as anybody elses) !
 

I wondered about that

[Big Insect]

The M60A1 RISE(P) Combat Tank and the M48A5 Patton appear to be identical but are of differing points.

No idea why that might be    I will investigate

[Superscribe]

Hi Mark

I expect this has been covered previously but with the absence of letter 'D' in the Notes column as suggested on p50, to identify Dedicated ATGW units, can you confirm that ATGW units listed in the Support category for each Nationality, such as British Milan and Soviet Spigot AT-4, are also dedicated ATGW units.

Regards

Chris

[Big Insect]

Hi Mark

I expect this has been covered previously but with the absence of letter 'D' in the Notes column as suggested on p50, to identify Dedicated ATGW units, can you confirm that ATGW units listed in the Support category for each Nationality, such as British Milan and Soviet Spigot AT-4, are also dedicated ATGW units.

Regards

Chris

You are so right Chris 

It was changed so that there are now specific sections in the Army Lists that have the designation 'Dedicated' against them. So ATGW's in that section are classified as Dedicated.
Those in other sections - such as Support (for example) are not Dedicated.

Helicopters are always classified as Dedicated. Some other vehicles (such as Hovercrafts or assault boats) can be specifically classified as 'Dedicated' but that is usually covered in the army list notes.

Many thanks
Mark

[Superscribe]

Hi Mark

OK so are Milan and Spigot (in Support section) classed as IATW so only get to fire once per GT or can they fire multiple times per GT?

Regards

Chris

[Big Insect]

They still fire like 'Dedicated' ATGW,  but are not classified as Independent units - so are subject to Command distance penalties. This reflects operating practice primarily and how they are integrated in with the Infantry (generally).
It is why the same unit type can appear in both Support & Dedicated - occassionally.

We can make that clearer in the Errata update.

Generally, 'Dedicated' means they are Independent units - which also applies to Dedicated on-table Artillery, and on-table Mortars as well.

[Superscribe]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected

BR
Chris

[ingtaer]

This is not an errata as such but more a question so apologies if it is in the wrong place. I am looking at making a force for Israel in their invasion of Lebanon in '82 and it seems that they are really light on options (especially transports and recce), is this accurate or am I missing something?
Also what would be the best way to include the various not state actors in the conflict? As separate battlegroups or integral?
Cheers in advance.

[Big Insect]

This is not an errata as such but more a question so apologies if it is in the wrong place. I am looking at making a force for Israel in their invasion of Lebanon in '82 and it seems that they are really light on options (especially transports and recce), is this accurate or am I missing something?
Also what would be the best way to include the various not state actors in the conflict? As separate battlegroups or integral?
Cheers in advance.

In '82 you are correct that the IDF has limited options.
M113 APCs, M3/5 half-tracks and a lot of Trucks were used to move infantry. You can even use captured BMP-1s.

For Recce, you can use Infantry Scouts (& remember these can be transported in APCs, half-tracks, jeeps & trucks from the Transport list), jeep mounted recce, captured BDRM2s and PT-76s, and M113 Bardelas A2S.

The Wiki page on the war has some good pictures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

With regards to opponents - there is due to be a specific Lebanese Civil War army list, but it is not an immediate one on the production list (I probably have another 10-15 on the list ahead of it I'm afraid), and it is not a quick or easy list to produce, as information is scarce and very unreliable.

My intention is to create a single list that covers all the various factions (except the IDF and Syrians who have/will have their own lists) that allows you to build up separate HQ commanded formations to work with either the IDF or Syrians or even US marines etc. It also allows you to use Israeli Air and Marine off-table assets to support formations which represent only one faction on its own. The Afghan-war Mujahedeen list might give you an idea around how to build a Palestinian PLO or Hamas force, but you'll need to adapt it heavily.

Not really sure how helpful all this is. But there will be a list for the Civil War - but to manage expectations, it wont be quick coming, unfortunately.
Thanks

Mark

[Superscribe]

Hi Mark

Looking at the Soviet VDV list the IATW upgrades dont look correct:

RPG-7 - 30 Upgrade - 3/30 3/30 H - - -/- 1961-88
RPG-16D - 30 Upgrade - 4/50 4/50 H - - -/- 1972-96
RPG-18 Mukha - 25 Upgrade - 3/50 3/50 H - - -/- 1972-93
RPG-7V1 - 50 Upgrade - 4/30 4/30 H - - -/- 1977

RPG-16D is cheaper than RPG-7V1 by 20pts but has 20cm longer range.  Is this correct?

Regards

Chris

[Big Insect]

Are you looking at the Book or the on-line lists. The online lists are correct. But always cross-check against the Soviet lists (online).

The IATWs were a bit of a muddle when we went to print and so the online lists are a much better representation of the effect and the costs.
But you should be able to cross-reference them against the main (on-line) Soviet or US or UK or French lists and use those costs and stats.
To also be frank - on the table at the scale we are playing at and with the range of stats we have available to us, some of the differences between RPG types are probably irrelevant.  But I'll also check these ones specifically, when I get some time.

There is a major piece of work going on to establish continuity across all the various weapons and vehicles for the main arms suppliers (e.g. USA, Soviets, France, Britain and to a lesser extent China. But it is a way off (unless some kind soul wants to volunteer to do it - without putting their own spin on things?).
The issue with the IATG, and all the Recoilless Rifles, and some howitzer type guns (as used on BMP-1s or Scorpion light tanks or Walker Bulldogs for example) was the (mistaken) belief that because we now had an AP & an AT set of stats, that the need for the 'H' designation disappears (when it doesn't) and that led to some confusion. Correcting that is nowhere near as straight forward as it might look. But most of the later 2nd or 3rd wave of lists have been adjusted (on-line)

All of which leads back to my initial reticence about putting any lists in the printed rules set. But we are where we are  - hey ho

[Superscribe]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the update. I was looking at the PDFs

Regards
Chris

[Phobos]

Not sure if someone has pointed it yet, but Iraq army list lacks several units, as SU122, ISU152, SU-17, captured Chieftains... Also, some of the dates look weird. Iraq deploying Shilka BEFORE the Soviet Union?

[Big Insect]

Not sure if someone has pointed it yet, but Iraq army list lacks several units, as SU122, ISU152, SU-17, captured Chieftains... Also, some of the dates look weird. Iraq deploying Shilka BEFORE the Soviet Union?

Thanks - you are correct about the Shilka - post 1965 - probably 1970 is more realistic.

Capture Chieftains ... I am dubious about the numbers and the amount of ammo available & whether they saw any active service. But happy to be enlightened.

Happy to include SU122 - but can you provide me with some source info as I cannot find anything?

SU17s - Iraq used the export versions (Su-20 and Su-22) of the SU-17 - the SU-22's are in the list and there is not enough difference between the 20 & 22 versions to warrant a separate line.

many thanks - we can pick these up in the errata.

Mark