Anyone puts casualties with "living" minis?

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

Hello, I have just gotten a very interesting idea which can potentially add dynamics to one's bases - casualties. I was thinking of getting some of the nice casualty markers from Pendraken and putting them among "living" miniatures, maybe one or two people lying dead, killed by stray a stray musket ball, a lying horseman and his poor horse being circumnavigated by their comrades as they advance, etc. Has anyone done this before? And if you have, please share images. I think this would make one's bases more interesting and varied, as well as much more tragic, as war was. I collect and plan to (eventually) play games because of my interest in history, but often I forget that the little men on my bases are not just colourful toys; for me they are supposed to be representations of real men that fought and died centuries ago, and for them war wasn't all about being dressed up fancily and swinging around cool weapons, it was mostly death and suffering. Since I plan to use my minis for educational purposes too with children and anyone that's interested, I think it would be good to give a grave reminder of how it was. Unfortunately it would likely be a while until I can do this, with university and all.
What are your thoughts on this?

Also, this idea might work well only for Thirty Years War and English Civil Wars at the moment, it seems. Not many Pendraken ranges have casualties, and even those that do have a low variety. The ECW range looks the most varied (and most useful to me), so eventually I hope to try this out.

[Techno II]

Hmmm...

I don't believe anyone has used that idea before, WK.

I certainly can't remember seeing that used in any of the photo's......here at least.
I think that's rather a good idea, especially if you're going to use the minis as an 'educational tool'.

Cheers - Phil.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Interesting, never done it but bears thinking about.

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

Hmmm... :-

I don't believe anyone has used that idea before, WK.

I certainly can't remember seeing that used in any of the photo's......here at least.
I think that's rather a good idea, especially if you're going to use the minis as an 'educational tool'.

Cheers - Phil.

I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been a thing with 18th century and Napoleonic wargaming. For me at least, the quintessential image of linear warfare was soldiers marching in lines while some of their comrades among them fall down or lie dead, breaking up the otherwise perfect order - pretty much the skirmish scene in Barry Lyndon. Oh well.

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

Interesting, never done it but bears thinking about.

I think it'd be nice of someone does it well and it catches on. But some manufacturer will have to make more casualty figures to make this properly work for most periods

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Well Phil is never busy 

[FierceKitty]

I use the SYW casualty figures to keep track of the score for 18th-century games. It works well enough, but I'd be reluctant to spoil the uniform and intimidating lines of troops with prone and punctured Prussians.

[Westmarcher]

Down to personal preference, I suppose. On the whole (for me) it is as much a 'no' as skirmisher stands lugging around a fence, wall or fallen tree.

One difficulty is the size of the base, necessitating odd over-sized bases that may interfere with the operation of the game. For example, if the figures are marching, the fallen figure will have been left behind by the time he's fallen to the ground. If the line is standing firing, the fallen figure won't jump up into the air and lie down neatly in the place he is standing and will either fall forward or back or sideways (and if wounded, may well have been dragged out of the away by fellow soldiers). This of course is unlikely to be a problem with standing figures in the process of being hit.

However, perhaps a casualty figure included in a CIC command stand as part of a mini-diorama - for example, a wounded light infantry figure lying prone on the ground reaching up for help (or simply lying dead) at the feet of the great man and his entourage (even though there is the question of why are they lugging that dead body around?).

So, imo, better to have casualties based individually. That way you may place them anywhere on the table perhaps with a trail of casualties to illustrate where the fighting has taken place (memories of the scene of the aftermath of the British advance and charge on the French line in the movie, Barry Lyndon).

   

[fsn]

I seem to have my troops marching and manoeuvring maybe 70% - 80% of the time. Some never manage to get into the action.

For me, having casualties in the mix would turn them from wargames figures to more of a vignette.

Down to personal preference, I suppose. On the whole (for me) it is as much a 'no' as skirmisher stands lugging around a fence, wall or fallen tree.

I agree with Westie. 

[Leman]

I do for the very reasons expressed. As units advance they will be taking casualties as they go so not dragging. However I amwell known for trees, bushes and rocks being dragged as well as Wendy Houses. Two examples: an Italian pikeman being despatched by a Milanese light cavalryman, and two casualty figures in an advancing Prussian unit.

[John Cook]

No, I have never considered it for unit stands, it would take up too much space I think.  I don't use casualty markers either.  The only time I go down the mini-diorama/vignette route is for command post and HQ markers.

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

Down to personal preference, I suppose. On the whole (for me) it is as much a 'no' as skirmisher stands lugging around a fence, wall or fallen tree.

One difficulty is the size of the base, necessitating odd over-sized bases that may interfere with the operation of the game. For example, if the figures are marching, the fallen figure will have been left behind by the time he's fallen to the ground. If the line is standing firing, the fallen figure won't jump up into the air and lie down neatly in the place he is standing and will either fall forward or back or sideways (and if wounded, may well have been dragged out of the away by fellow soldiers). This of course is unlikely to be a problem with standing figures in the process of being hit.

However, perhaps a casualty figure included in a CIC command stand as part of a mini-diorama - for example, a wounded light infantry figure lying prone on the ground reaching up for help (or simply lying dead) at the feet of the great man and his entourage (even though there is the question of why are they lugging that dead body around?).

So, imo, better to have casualties based individually. That way you may place them anywhere on the table perhaps with a trail of casualties to illustrate where the fighting has taken place (memories of the scene of the aftermath of the British advance and charge on the French line in the movie, Barry Lyndon).

   

What you say makes sense, but I think it also depends on basing. I base on 3x6 cm with 14 infantry or 6 cavalry, and I do think I'll fit one or two corpses if I replace one or two standing figures. And it will definitely look like the corpses are being lugged around for some reason, but as you said, it's personal preference. I might try it out with some figures I have and see how it goes.

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

I seem to have my troops marching and manoeuvring maybe 70% - 80% of the time. Some never manage to get into the action.

For me, having casualties in the mix would turn them from wargames figures to more of a vignette.
I agree with Westie. 

makes sense. I think vignettes like that are nice, but to each their own. Some don't like the idea of carrying around the scenery.

[Leman]

So again we have arrived at a non-conclusion of I like this/I don't like this. One more reason for my joyously embracing solo gaming.

[The_Wrong_Khovanskiy]

I do for the very reasons expressed. As units advance they will be taking casualties as they go so not dragging. However I amwell known for trees, bushes and rocks being dragged as well as Wendy Houses. Two examples: an Italian pikeman being despatched by a Milanese light cavalryman, and two casualty figures in an advancing Prussian unit.

yay, someone did it! Your minis are really nice. The charging cavalrymen look very formidable.