Black uniforms: Advice sought

[DecemDave]

Yes.
Two sources of wisdom apply.
The first is "fade to grey" or "objects appear lighter" at distance.
The second if Father Ted "Only priest's socks are black Douglas, others are dark dark dark dark dark blue".

Also give some thought to the meaning of "black" in the cays before synthetic dyes.

Love it.  Father Ted as a primary wargames source.  "Those are not small 10mm figures Dougal, they are far, far away......"  has anyone made an Escape from the Lingerie department game yet?

[John Cook]

There is no pure black in nature so, like Paulr, I use Vallejo Black Grey with a black wash, then dry (very) brushed with khaki grey, which is what use to highlight generally because it gives a slightly dusty effect which I like.  Look at that picture you posted - it is essentially multiple shades of grey.  You could highlight with a light grey, even white if you prefer a more pristine effect.

[Big Insect]

I find black too dark for 10mm so use Vallejo Black Grey highlighted Basalt Grey for all my blacks

Likewise  (great minds paulr) - I also put a small amount of matt black into the matt varnish I use* as that picks out detail and deep creases etc. Not to much or they start to look dirty - especially flesh and white equipment.
* I gave up on the army painter varnish washes as I found them too unpredictable and brutal.

[Big Insect]

Pre synthetic dyes, a lot of 'black' coloring was produced in a way that actually corroded the structure of the fabric.

I found this  (really interesting) blog on-line which I thought was helpful - especially the bit about the colour being corrosive. I also read that it was not particularly 'fast'.
https://refashioningrenaissance.eu/exploring-historical-blacks-the-burgundian-black-collaboratory/

In the C14th/C15th - when black clothing (for upper class men especially) was a sign of wealth - partly because it was expensive, but also because it really shows up the dirt so easily. This Oak Apple (gall) method seemed to be the primary source of black cloth dye. The same process was used from the Roman empire right up to the C17th for writing ink using iron filings and oak apples (galls).
However, it does dissolve woolen cloth specifically - so not only were your black cloths costly. they didn't last too long! As most Napoleonic Wars uniforms were made of wool, and the oak gall method was expensive, I suspect that the over-painting method described in the blog might have been used for mass produced uniforms. So a hint of red or blue in the black might be a good way to highlight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_apple

Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.

[fsn]

Just had a thought.


I'm also looking towards doing an Austrian army. 

[hammurabi70]

Pre synthetic dyes, a lot of 'black' coloring was produced in a way that actually corroded the structure of the fabric.

I found this  (really interesting) blog on-line which I thought was helpful - especially the bit about the colour being corrosive. I also read that it was not particularly 'fast'.
https://refashioningrenaissance.eu/exploring-historical-blacks-the-burgundian-black-collaboratory/

In the C14th/C15th - when black clothing (for upper class men especially) was a sign of wealth - partly because it was expensive, but also because it really shows up the dirt so easily. This Oak Apple (gall) method seemed to be the primary source of black cloth dye. The same process was used from the Roman empire right up to the C17th for writing ink using iron filings and oak apples (galls).
However, it does dissolve woolen cloth specifically - so not only were your black cloths costly. they didn't last too long! As most Napoleonic Wars uniforms were made of wool, and the oak gall method was expensive, I suspect that the over-painting method described in the blog might have been used for mass produced uniforms. So a hint of red or blue in the black might be a good way to highlight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_apple

Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.

A reenactor once advised me that black dye technology was introduced in the fourteenth century; as a novel process it was presumably expensive when first done.  I gather the Jesuits choosing black robes is as much a fashion statement as anything else.  Inexpensive purple dye was created in the nineteenth century; I would be interested if anyone knows how widespread its use was prior to the Victorian era.  Apart from Emperor's robes when else was it used?

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

You need to read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mauve-Invented-Color-Changed-World/dp/1435296699

[hammurabi70]

You need to read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mauve-Invented-Color-Changed-World/dp/1435296699

Thank you; it looks like an interesting read.  Of course there is detail here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple

My concerns are the general availability in ancient times in military use.  For example, were the Vexillia used by the forces of the Byzantine Empire predominantly coloured in imperial purple or city red?  Was the emblem of the Sassanian forces in purple or royal blue? A google search will generate suggestions each way.

[steve_holmes_11]

Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.

The Chinese used tannin-rich mud from tropical river deltas.

[toxicpixie]

Thank you gentlemen.

Might have to try the contrast black.  :-

I've found it great on 20mm plastics - not tried on 10mm but I suspect it'll be a very easy time saver!

[DHautpol]

My approach is a grey wash over black.

In particular, Howard Hues "Panzer Grey" (1719), thinned to taste, over Liquitex Black Gesso.

I use the "Black Undercoat" method and I find black gesso works very well (grey and white versions are available too).  It can be sploshed on and dries really tightly so the detail is not obscured.  It also has what I believe is termed "tooth", meaning it grips the paint well; I once tried GW Chaos Black and the surface was quite slippery and I found I was dragging the subsequent colour about on the surface rather than having it cover.

[Heedless Horseman]

I haven't actually painted anything for a while, and have not tried the Vallejo equivalent, but thought Revel 'Anthracite' was a very good 'off black'. I find true black a bit too 'harsh' for 10mm for uniform or headgear... and definitely for 'dusty' / 'worn' boots! OK for leather belts etc. as contrast over 'off black'.

[Leman]

Stopped using black ages ago and only use Vallejo black grey these days.

[Techno II]

What surprises me is how 'black' police uniforms sometimes appear on the TV

To my poor old eyes, they definitely look a dark brown. (Usually when the 'boys in blue' are in bright sunshine.)

Cheers - Phil.

[paulr]

Stopped using black ages ago and only use Vallejo black grey these days.

Seconded, Basalt grey is a good highlight / dry brush