WW2 M3 half tracks with British seated troops with side backpack and rolls etc.

[fred.]

Done a bit of research (well reading up on wikipedia, and looking at a few photos)

Isn't the chassis longer?

Yes but only 13cm. So not enough to care about at this scale.

The main difference seems to be the back corners are curved on the M5, but square on the M3. I couple of quick passes with a file would sort this if you want - although on many photos the back corners are obscured by racks and other stuff.

[Dr Dave]

Done a bit of research (well reading up on wikipedia, and looking at a few photos)
Yes but only 13cm. So not enough to care about at this scale.

The main difference seems to be the back corners are curved on the M5, but square on the M3. I couple of quick passes with a file would sort this if you want - although on many photos the back corners are obscured by racks and other stuff.

But the front mudguards are a bit of a killer. They're the biggest difference. The odd thing is, at least to my eyes, the Pendraken "British M3" looks more like an M5 or later - at least the mudguards do?

[d_Guy]

Reads thread, wants desperately to join in:
"My pre-Flodden Scots carry M3 pikes but switch to M5's for the march south in 1513".

[Ithoriel]

While I understand that it's nice to have the exact model for a thing, I have had to use so many proxies over the piece that getting hung up over the minutiae of make and model aren't generally something I bother with.

One of the blokes who used to come here gaming had some hannomags, sprayed green and with an allied star on the bonnet, to move his US armoured infantry.  No one batted an eyelid.

[fsn]

Reads thread, wants desperately to join in:
“My pre-Flodden Scots carry M3 pikes but switch to M5’s for the march south in 1513”.

Pub! My Flodden Scots have the much superior M4 and, I know this is a little out of period, Brens.

I generally don't get too bogged down in exact versions. Since my August 1944 NW Europe Brits nay fight anywhere after 1943 and in a number of theatres I am bound to be wrong at some point.

[pierre the shy]

Reads thread, wants desperately to join in:
"My pre-Flodden Scots carry M3 pikes but switch to M5's for the march south in 1513".

If you're marching south don't get onto the M25.....you'll end up going in circles....probably rather slowly.

Plenty of proxies in some of the WW2 games I've played in over the years, though they have been mainly 6mm so they are not quite so obvious.   

[MartinKnight1333]

The M5 was made slightly longer for I think a very good reason.
American Squads are 10 men.
British three bricks of four making 12 men.

[Westmarcher]

While I understand that it's nice to have the exact model for a thing, I have had to use so many proxies over the piece that getting hung up over the minutiae of make and model aren't generally something I bother with.

One of the blokes who used to come here gaming had some hannomags, sprayed green and with an allied star on the bonnet, to move his US armoured infantry.  No one batted an eyelid.

... and now we know why. 

[Orcs]

While I understand that it's nice to have the exact model for a thing, I have had to use so many proxies over the piece that getting hung up over the minutiae of make and model aren't generally something I bother with.

One of the blokes who used to come here gaming had some hannomags, sprayed green and with an allied star on the bonnet, to move his US armoured infantry.  No one batted an eyelid.

Well said.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

The M5 was made slightly longer for I think a very good reason.
American Squads are 10 men.
British three bricks of four making 12 men.

ER NOOOOOOO. You would lucky to get 8 men in a British infantry SECTION - which operationally split into a 5 and a 3, or if at the official strength of 10, 7 and 3(with the Bren). Motor Infantry were officially 8, and these would have had the 1/2 tracks.

US armoured infantry were 12, but that included the driver and gunner, who would stay with the vehicle, giving 10 dismounts.

Also the vehicles were issued with a bazooka, M1919 30 cal, and Thompson SMG....the British removed those.

IanS

[MartinKnight1333]

I would guess also that the size was because the demand by the British to carry 12 men ie three bricks as opposed to the American 10 man squads?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

REda the above, NO BRITISH SECTION EVER HAD 12 MEN !!!!

[MartinKnight1333]

Yes they did, prove they didn't not all units were 10 men and no need to shout its rude !

The Warwickshires in 1944 had 12 men squads at Caen according to the roll in the local museum, but i agree majority units were understrength.

No two British units were the same ORBAT, as it was and is today what ever the unit could beg steal and borrow.

No unit operates 5-3, ideally two 4's with rifle and the Bren team of 2, plus the Lance Corporal with a sten, more often a rifle.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I suggest you find copies of British Army Handbook by Chamberlin and Eliis and the same title by George Forty, both taken from War Office publications, and do a Google search on the British Army of WWII. You will then find that the only 12 Section would be in a Carrier Platoon, with 3 carriers each with 4 crew, of whom 3 dismounted. The standard Rifle Platoon, both lorried and foot troops had 3 Sections of officially 10 men, whilst the Motor battalions had 8 man sections, and they would be an 8 man section as they were originally sized for 15cwt trucks.

The only 12 man sections could be in the Commandos, who most certainly did not have 1/2 tracks, and possibly Paras early on, plus the Glider Pilot rgt, again neither had 1/2 tracks, doubt a C47 could lift one !

So please stop inventing organisations, leg infantry NEVER were in 12's

I have been modest and not referred you to some of my publications about WWII either.

Also the only difference in body length for 1/2 Track models is between M2 and M3, since the M2 is supposedly a gun tractor, and IH built the M5 and M9 at the same length .

IanS

[sultanbev]

"The Warwickshires in 1944 had 12 men squads at Caen"
Was it then two surviving squads to the platoon, rather than three? Whilst I've come across the fact that some tank units landed overstrength on Normandy, I've never come across overstrength infantry units, especially after a few days fighting. Platoons were often reduced to 25 men or less, indeed some companies fought in Normandy with 50 effectives. How those 25 or so men were organised would have been up to the platoon commander at the time, so it's conceivable some platoons might have gone for two larger squads rather than 3 smaller ones, but I've not seen any evidence for that.
Even if they were 12 man squads (okay, sections), the Left Out of Battle system would mean they only went into action with 8-10 men anyway.

That's all beside the point, as the Warwickshires was an infantry battalion, not a Motor Battalion, and only the Motor Battalions used the halftracks, with, as Ian said, 8 man sections.

Mark