MicroMark Army Lists for BKC-IV!

[Inactive]

I know exactly what's in the US army for WW2 thanks, I've been gaming WW2 for 30 years or more, you are merely assuming I don't know whereas in fact you have zero awareness of my knowledge insofar as it relates to the armies I am interested in. The question with regard to the US Armoured division with regard to a Micromark list was specifically from the BKC perspective.  The comment I made above was not a literal 'that's all there is', any gaming is a matter of personal preference and I find the US comparatively bland to play, others may feel different, up to them.  I don't know why you assume I'm going for a British Infantry division TBH, there's a fair bit of assumption in your reply. 

Anyway, I've made my decision.  I come here to discuss my thoughts on BKC and as an aside what I plan to do, not to bicker with people who seem to want nothing other than to find things to 'point out' based solely on their own flawed assumptions. It may be that you are trying to be helpful, if you are, apologies, but it REALLY doesn't come across that way at all, comes across that your'e looking to find 'faults' to argue about.  Probably better if you concern yourself with what you want to do and let me decide about what I want to do.  Over and out!

[Norm]

I know exactly what's in the US army for WW2 thanks, I've been gaming WW2 for 30 years or more, you are merely assuming I don't know whereas in fact you have zero awareness of my knowledge insofar as it relates to the armies I am interested in. The question with regard to the US Armoured division with regard to a Micromark list was specifically from the BKC perspective.  The comment I made above was not a literal 'that's all there is', any gaming is a matter of personal preference and I find the US comparatively bland to play, others may feel different, up to them.  I don't know why you assume I'm going for a British Infantry division TBH, there's a fair bit of assumption in your reply. 

Anyway, I've made my decision.  I come here to discuss my thoughts on BKC and as an aside what I plan to do, not to bicker with people who seem to want nothing other than to find things to 'point out' based solely on their own flawed assumptions. It may be that you are trying to be helpful, if you are, apologies, but it REALLY doesn't come across that way at all, comes across that your'e looking to find 'faults' to argue about.  Probably better if you concern yourself with what you want to do and let me decide about what I want to do.  Over and out!

Wow!

[Rhys]

Indeed.
I've been gaming WW2 (and moderns) for 40 years so though I might have been able to add something to the conversation.
I just thought that your comments that it was all just 3 different AFV's and that the games were repetative were not my experience. I've had good fun running my Combat Command from the 4th armored division using WW2 Spearhead rules and found the variety of AFV's quite interesting in terms of what get used for what job and how to juggle all this to beat Germans. Conversely I've never been able to come up with a list for a British 1944 armoured division that I think will work on the table. Now a British infantry brigade with Churchills, 17pdr AT and support from all the divisional artilley is far more fun and a lot nastier to face than it sounds (all those 25 pdrs fuiring at once start to stack up). 15mm vs 10mm is more expensive but armoured units tend to be more expensive than infantry units base for base (and I missinterpreted your last 2 sentences. I've spent the day processing fruit into jams and wine).

[Inactive]

Indeed.
I've been gaming WW2 (and moderns) for 40 years so though I might have been able to add something to the conversation.
I just thought that your comments that it was all just 3 different AFV's and that the games were repetative were not my experience. I've had good fun running my Combat Command from the 4th armored division using WW2 Spearhead rules and found the variety of AFV's quite interesting in terms of what get used for what job and how to juggle all this to beat Germans. Conversely I've never been able to come up with a list for a British 1944 armoured division that I think will work on the table. Now a British infantry brigade with Churchills, 17pdr AT and support from all the divisional artilley is far more fun and a lot nastier to face than it sounds (all those 25 pdrs fuiring at once start to stack up). 15mm vs 10mm is more expensive but armoured units tend to be more expensive than infantry units base for base (and I missinterpreted your last 2 sentences. I've spent the day processing fruit into jams and wine).

Fair enough.  We will all form our own opinions about all things gaming.  There's no right / wrong at the end of the day, it's just toy soldiers.  What we shouldn't do though, IMO, is assume the levels of knowledge of people that we don't don't or assume what choices they are making. We all have reasons for doing the forces we do as well and they are not all related to toys and rules, some of it also just comes down to plain preference, burn out and boredom with what we've done before.  I also find the level of enjoyment I get from any given force can significantly depend on the rules and in terms of posting here, I'm considering only BKC (albeit I plan to base so that units are usable in O-Group). 

15mm (and I have a lot but still not enough for BKC) for me is way more expensive than 10mm.  A metal tank from Peter Pig is in the region of £9-10, a box of 5 from Battlefront / FOW is $50 US (I am forced to use the US store simply because I don't live in the UK at the moment) so, £8 each vs £2-3 in 10mm.  So 24 (for the sake of argument) 15mm, even at £8 each (best case scenario) is £192 vs £72 (worst case scenario) in 10mm.  I know there are other options like PSC (often out of stock and terrible delivery times), Forged in Battle (not keen on resin) and even 3D printing (in which I haven't the slightest interest) but they mostly come in packs of 3-5 when often I might need 1-2 at most.  That's without looking at the infantry, buildings and terrain etc. plus of course the footprint.  Hence I've bailed on 15mm and will keep them, maybe, for lower level games like Battlgroup (too crunchy for my tastes) or even the TFL games.

[Sean Clark]

Indeed wow.

You have a right to interpret comments as you wish, but how you respond to them is the key. In my 12 years on here, I've never seen such a barbed response. If you have beef with someone's response, message them directly. This is one of the friendliest forums going. Lets keep it civil.

[Inactive]

Indeed wow.

You have a right to interpret comments as you wish, but how you respond to them is the key. In my 12 years on here, I've never seen such a barbed response. If you have beef with someone's response, message them directly. This is one of the friendliest forums going. Lets keep it civil.

Indeed wow, talk about an overly sensitive over reaction!  I pointed out that I

1) considered the comments to be more fault finding, not helpful. 
2) do not come onto forums to bicker with people. 
3) Apologise if I interpreted the post wrong but, if not, we may be better concerning ourselves with our own plans. 

Nothing barbed about ANY of that unless of course someone is going out of their way to take offence (as is all too common these days).  Maybe you should consider your interpretation of other peoples posts before popping up as the (self-appointed I assume?) forum police dictating what others may or may not do.  Funny, but you are quite happy to dictate what OTHERS can do but it seems are more than happy to ignore your own advice of "If you have beef with someone's response, message them directly."  I guess it didn't suit and your own 'rules' about who should do what, how and where only apply to others right?  Maybe making a condescending self-righteous post was the priority here?

The best thing to avoid ones messages being misinterpreted is to think more before posting, communication is a two way thing and what one posts may not be interpreted in the way one intends.  If however I consider posts to be unhelpful, even condescending, particularly when they are clearly formed on the basis of others having absolutely no idea about me or my degree of knowledge, I will respond accordingly and will respond wherever the original points were made. So maybe dial back a bit on the OTT 'Lets keep it civil' until I am indeed being uncivil. 

I will be as civil as people are to me, what I will not do though is just sit back and accept comments that people choose to make about me or my posts IF I consider them to be condescending, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate / unfair or anything else that people may feel they have a God given right to deal out (as in your case) just because they feel like it.  Not making such comments in the first place, or being more careful with the wording, is by far the best way not to get a proportionate response to correct them, and that's not just in relation to forums about toy soldiers.

Needless to say, I don't intend to discuss the matter with you any further, particularly given that both Rhys and I clarified our positions already and yet you STILL felt the need to ignore your own advice and pipe up here with a post I find just as objectionable as you seem to have gone out of your way to find mine!

[Inactive]

Error Quote

[John Cook]

Indeed wow.

Quite so.  An extraordinary response.

[Ithoriel]

Wow!  I'm not sure which is more breathtaking, the original vituperative response to Rhys's post, obviously intended to be helpful, even if it wasn't, or the equally belligerent response to Sean.

It's what I've come to expect from "the other place" not the Pendraken Forum! Not at all the "I disagree with everything you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" I've come to expect here.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

YES, BE CIVIL PLEASE!

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Will stop shouting. I took no offence what so ever, but then I have a very long nose, and two enormouse upper incisors and can't run.

[Sean Clark]

Indeed wow, talk about an overly sensitive over reaction!  I pointed out that I

1) considered the comments to be more fault finding, not helpful. 
2) do not come onto forums to bicker with people. 
3) Apologise if I interpreted the post wrong but, if not, we may be better concerning ourselves with our own plans. 

Nothing barbed about ANY of that unless of course someone is going out of their way to take offence (as is all too common these days).  Maybe you should consider your interpretation of other peoples posts before popping up as the (self-appointed I assume?) forum police dictating what others may or may not do.  Funny, but you are quite happy to dictate what OTHERS can do but it seems are more than happy to ignore your own advice of "If you have beef with someone's response, message them directly."  I guess it didn't suit and your own 'rules' about who should do what, how and where only apply to others right?  Maybe making a condescending self-righteous post was the priority here?

The best thing to avoid ones messages being misinterpreted is to think more before posting, communication is a two way thing and what one posts may not be interpreted in the way one intends.  If however I consider posts to be unhelpful, even condescending, particularly when they are clearly formed on the basis of others having absolutely no idea about me or my degree of knowledge, I will respond accordingly and will respond wherever the original points were made. So maybe dial back a bit on the OTT 'Lets keep it civil' until I am indeed being uncivil. 

I will be as civil as people are to me, what I will not do though is just sit back and accept comments that people choose to make about me or my posts IF I consider them to be condescending, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate / unfair or anything else that people may feel they have a God given right to deal out (as in your case) just because they feel like it.  Not making such comments in the first place, or being more careful with the wording, is by far the best way not to get a proportionate response to correct them, and that's not just in relation to forums about toy soldiers.

Needless to say, I don't intend to discuss the matter with you any further, particularly given that both Rhys and I clarified our positions already and yet you STILL felt the need to ignore your own advice and pipe up here with a post I find just as objectionable as you seem to have gone out of your way to find mine!

Hopefully you see the irony in what you've written   

[Big Insect]

Gents

Please can we all calm down (& move on) or I will shut this post down.

The danger with all forums is that the written word can so easily escalate whether intentionally or unintentially, as it is almost impossible to indicate "tone of voice".

We do generally keep a very calm, friendly and moderate tone on all forum posts here, and also in all our reactions to other posts and replies. Please let us keep it that way.
Many thanks
Mark (moderator)

[Inactive]

Gents

Please can we all calm down (& move on) or I will shut this post down.

The danger with all forums is that the written word can so easily escalate whether intentionally or unintentially, as it is almost impossible to indicate "tone of voice".

We do generally keep a very calm, friendly and moderate tone on all forum posts here, and also in all our reactions to other posts and replies. Please let us keep it that way.
Many thanks
Mark (moderator)

More than happy to move on.  It shouldn't have escalated as it did, but I do take exception to people dictating to me how and where I should post, especially when they seem more than happy to ignore their own advice!

[Orcs]

I know exactly what's in the US army for WW2 thanks, I've been gaming WW2 for 30 years or more, you are merely assuming I don't know whereas in fact you have zero awareness of my knowledge insofar as it relates to the armies I am interested in. The question with regard to the US Armoured division with regard to a Micromark list was specifically from the BKC perspective.  The comment I made above was not a literal 'that's all there is', any gaming is a matter of personal preference and I find the US comparatively bland to play, others may feel different, up to them.  I don't know why you assume I'm going for a British Infantry division TBH, there's a fair bit of assumption in your reply. 

Anyway, I've made my decision.  I come here to discuss my thoughts on BKC and as an aside what I plan to do, not to bicker with people who seem to want nothing other than to find things to 'point out' based solely on their own flawed assumptions. It may be that you are trying to be helpful, if you are, apologies, but it REALLY doesn't come across that way at all, comes across that your'e looking to find 'faults' to argue about.  Probably better if you concern yourself with what you want to do and let me decide about what I want to do.  Over and out!

I think that was a bit of an overreaction to a well meant comment.