Hearts of Oak (well MDF...)

[Last Hussar]

I have colonels for those fiddly minor units, like battalions!

I play Blucher at "Grand Scale", where 1 base is 4,000 men.

However when I finally finish rebasing my Peninsula it will be formed on the Small Scale. There is no difference in the rules, but the bases represent 1,200 men.

[Last Hussar]

Finished up and based, so I now have 3 more bases of Russians!

What I can't find are the flags I've printed.  However,  tomorrow will gave a count up to see if I have a 300 point army now available.

[Last Hussar]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Forgot to Rotring Pen the 'detail line' on the Russians just based - the bit scored to give a boundary between lines.

Luckily will not really show up, as jackets are dark green. Would have been nice to have remembered the line between the legs on the white trousers, though.

          

[Last Hussar]

I have now flagged the Russians. And possibly just invented a new verb.

Next; packet of 4 cannon. See what my mojo is tomorrow!

Am wondering- surely I have more packets than just that one.

[Last Hussar]

Quick question following this update.

Update;
1st Western Army is short 4 cannon bases, coincidental to the next lot of painting, which is 4 cannons. I will then have all of 1st Western, plus VII corps from the 2nd Western.

Now the question.
At Blucher level, that is base=2-3000 cavalry, a command unit of bases equals a corps, how would the Russians have organised the cavalry.

At the moment I have them nominally in 3 units of 2 bases, with 1 base per unit having attached artillery. Should this be 1 of 6, plus have the artillery as a separate unit of artillery?

(If it should be a single 6 base unit, I can leave the artillery attached if need be.)

[Last Hussar]

Anyone?

[steve_holmes_11]

The Battle of Borodino: Order of Battle of the Russian Army

https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/battles/Borodino/Mikaberidze/OrdersofBattle/c_MikaberidzeOOB1.html



You'll need to scroll a bit to locate the Cavalry, Cuirassier and Irregular formations.

I believe (but couldn't find any reference) regular squadron strength was 150 in the field.
This gives regimental strengths of 600 heavy or 1200 light horsemen
I'm happy to be corrected on that.

Cossack sotnias numbered 100 (for 500 man regiments).

[Last Hussar]

Thanks.

It's not the strength,  it's the usage. 3 units of 2 will play differently to 1 unit of 6.

[steve_holmes_11]

Thanks.

It's not the strength,  it's the usage. 3 units of 2 will play differently to 1 unit of 6.

In this context it's worth mentioning that the Russian light Regiments (10 squadrons, 8 field squadrons and one reserve) were formally divided into two battalions.

This allowed them to operate as two formations, each the same size as the heavy cavalry regiments.
It also allowed light and heavy horse to use a common drill where appropriate.

This overcomes a real bugbear from many earlier Napoleonic rules which fielded cavalry as indivisible regiments.
The British get plenty of zippy little formations.
The poor old Russians and Austrians are stuck with massive hussar regiments (Other light horsemen are available).
Terribly unwieldy in old-skool rules with tight restrictions on wheeling, interpenetration, gaps and formation changes.

The result being the vanguard and scouting arm of the army can barely manoeuvre, and causes massive gaps in its own lines.


Fortunately, rules have progressed, and become a lot less fussy.

[Last Hussar]

It virtually the opposite problem in Blucher!

Because these are high level rules - you are commanding 3-5 Corps, it is assumed that the colonels are doing their job - you don't have to worry about line/column/square etc. The only formation is a base can be 'prepared' - this represents some or all (or some!) of the multiple battalions on a base being ready to face cavalry.

For cavalry each base at 'Grand' scale represents 2-3,000 horses.

At the start of your turn, your opponent rolls 3d6, and keeps the total secret. As you move, you spend 1 Movement Order per base moved, but, and this is the crucial thing in my dilemma, is you move the whole corps before finding if the MO has been exceeded.

So say you have already used 5 MO. You order a corps of 6 bases, this takes your total after movement to 11. At this point your MO is 11. Your opponent then says 'Stop' because he rolled 9.

Thus large corps are an advantage, because if you ordered I corps of 2 bases, your MO is now 7. You order II corps of 2, taking MO to 9, so your opponent says stop - you don't get to activate III Corps. Thus a 1 corps of 6 has an advantage over 3 corps of 2.

Countering that is once you start another corps, you can't return to the previous corps. So you couldn't move 3 units of I corps, then move IV Corps, then return to I corps. However with small corps you can move them piece meal.

You could intend Left-centre-right, but be satisfied if you didn't get the right to move. With a large corps that were both wings you would move Left & Right, risking you couldn't move centre, or move centre, risking you couldn't move the wings.

In my head it is coming down to do Russian cavalry all go together, or do they get fragmented?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I suspect the Cossacks fragment, rest operate en mass as a Corp per army...

[steve_holmes_11]

The reality was similar to the artillery.

Some parcelled out at deployment time to support the infantry.
The rest held in reserve for use as the battle developed.

It's taken me some forty years to appreciate this.
But it perfectly explains why my six boxes of Airfix figures never felt like Waterloo.

At a more relevant level, it explains why army frontages seldom match orders of battle.
Or why wargames produce bloodbaths with casualties far heavier than (almost) any actual battle.


If you look at the order of battle (I posted a link above).

The 2nd reserve cavalry Corps contains 2 regiments of Dragoons, and one each of Hussars and Lancers.
Using the regiment strengths (4 squadrons for dragoons, 8 for others) and 150 man squadrons, it yields 3,600 Horsemen.
1,200 each of Dragoons, Hussars and Lancers.


I don't know the Blucher rules, so can't advise on whether they allow aggregation of different brands of cavalry.
But that looks like 1 3,000 horseman base and a bit of spare change.

The Irregular forces section helpfully lists 5,600 men under Platov.

[Last Hussar]

Then I think the Russian commander needs to make a decision before the strategic map moves at the start of the game takes place; how does he want to organise the cavalry? I'd say a corps needs to stay together, he can't say 1st is both of I and 1 of III, 2ND is II and rest of III. Effectively what is tactical,  and what is reserve.

Once set, it can't be changed. This could have an effect on the pregame, a choice between parts available,  vs all or nothing.

[steve_holmes_11]

Then I think the Russian commander needs to make a decision before the strategic map moves at the start of the game takes place; how does he want to organise the cavalry? I'd say a corps needs to stay together, he can't say 1st is both of I and 1 of III, 2ND is II and rest of III. Effectively what is tactical,  and what is reserve.

Once set, it can't be changed. This could have an effect on the pregame, a choice between parts available,  vs all or nothing.

I don't know the rules, but that seems reasonable.


The uncooperative Russians didn't Corps their horsemen in neat parcels of 3,000.
You can probably overflow the surplus from one corps to another to balance the numbers.

Most Corps contain at least one division that mixes Dragoons and light cavalry.
Those light horse would be the first ones detached for scouting, line of communication and bolstering the infantry corps.

[Last Hussar]

Checking the Obscure Battles site which im taking my OOB from (yes, he knows!) 1st, 2nd and 3rd Corps are 2,956, 2,556 and 3,356. A cavalry base in Blucher Grand Scale is nominally 2-3000.

What I went with is 3 corps each of 2 bases, but class them all as "understrength" in the rules.

I have the option of saying 4 bases at full strength, and treating it as a single cavalry corps.

(I'd forgotten about this decision until checking the list.)

It comes down to 4 full strength units that will act together, vs 6 weaker units that will be more flexible but possibly more difficult to activate.