Facebook: Friends of the Tank Museum

[fsn]

Glad to see that silly American notion of helmets wasn't part of your rig.

Good photos.


Phil, try watching some videos by the Chieftain on YouTube - especially when he does his emergency evacuation ("Oh no. the tank is on fire.") My admiration for men who fight in tanks increased tenfold after watching some of these.

[Raider4]

How did folk (including you, Paul) manage to stay in something that small without losing your minds ?

I vaguely remember reading about how part of the training is to basically lock the crew in the tank for an extended period - 48 hours, maybe?.

Hint - there's no toilet in an armoured vehicle . . .

Not something I'd have liked to go through.

[T13A]

Hi Phil

The only time it really got cramped was when we were fully 'bombed up', that was 54 (if memory serves) main armament rounds (APDS, HESH and Smoke) plus the relevant bagged charges (the ones for the HESH and smoke rounds were half the size of the ones for the APDS rounds), 6000 7.62 rounds for the Co-ax MG and the commanders MG (both GPMG's) in 30 x200 round boxes. Plus rounds for the smoke dischargers, our personal weapons (Stirling SMG's in those days) and again if memory serves space for some hand grenades, oh, and not forgetting rounds for the 'very' pistol! That said, I spent a lot of my time as the loader/operator so was the only crew member who could actually move around a bit (including making the tea). I started as a gunner which was great when shooting the bloody thing (I particularly enjoyed shooting the co-ax MG) but if there was no live firing going on it was a pain as the only crew member without their own hatch. On the other hand you could carry an awful lot of beer......

Me, on the right:



FSN......



They were introduced to help stop banging your head when inside and to cut down on the noise, they were not popular.



Raider4

I do remember being closed down (but not 'locked in') for between 2 and 3 days once for a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) exercise, and having to wear our NBC 'suits' which was pretty uncomfortable (and boring) but compare with the infantry we 'lived' in luxury.


Cheers Paul

[Westmarcher]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Paul (and thanks to Ian, too). I dallied with the idea of joining up in my youth but opted for the civvy life instead (but would have stepped forward if called up) so it's always interesting to hear how you guys got on. One of my neighbours ('young Guy' - deary me, he's in his forties, now - nice lad, later became a policeman, an anti-piracy security guard on tankers and now on MoD security at Faslane) saw action in a Chally in Basra, surviving a few hits by RPG's ("the tank rocked and we moved on") and recall seeing him on the BBC News standing beside the gouge in the side skirt armour of his Chally.

As for myself, all I've done is briefly had the pleasure of driving a Chieftain and, although I'm only 5' 8", found it quite cramped to get in and out of (mind you, I was 65 at the time!  ). No doubt a younger, slimmer self would have got in and out a lot more easily. Somewhat annoyingly, if placed back in the vehicle, I'm unable to fully recall how to go up and down the gears - somewhat incongruously, I vaguely recall the gear foot pedal is very much like driving a motorcycle. The Stormer and FV432 were a bit of a squeeze, too, but easier to drive. The Abbot was the worst - although the same chassis as the 432, as you may know, the 105mm gun takes up a lot a space and so the driver's area is one of the spaces reduced as a result - with the extra weight of the gun and turret, you could also feel a marked difference in the handling of the vehicle requiring a good bit more 'firmness' in operating the juice and steering sticks. Fun, nevertheless. As we were driving around and talking away I didn't realise what a geek I was until my ex-Army instructor asked me what regiment I served in!  (of course, I owned up) 

[Techno II]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Paul (and thanks to Ian, too).

Ditto ! Thanks, Both ! 

The photo of Paul sitting on the front of the tank, also helps me to  'get my head around' the size of some of the tanks themselves.
Bigger than I'd imagined.

Cheers - Phil 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Thank you both.

[steve_holmes_11]

Great first hand info.

Being somewhat taller than average, I've paid some interest in the height limits for soldiers down the years.
That's obviously a serious factor now we've taken to shutting our fighting men inside their weapon systems.

It began with a visit to HMS Victory aged 7 when I wasn't able to stand up in the gun-decks, or even on the staircases.
I then built an Airfix Spitfire which had a potted biog of a pilot - about my height at the time, who could only fit in by omitting his parachute.

I soon learned that height was the ideal excuse for dodging unpleasant duties like ball turret gunner or tunnel rat.

The one that really bewildered me were Napoleonic era recruiting posters (Either Imperial War Museum, or Museum of London).
I was quite shocked to see most regiments had minimum and maximum height limits.
I can almost imagine this for the line infantry (don't want those lanky chaps making the unit look untidy).
I was quite surprised to see the same in force for the heavy cavalry and even the guards.

Turns out the regulations would have confined me to light cavalry.

I wondered why they had these upper limits (which I son learned were rarely enforced).
Guesswork wondered about the size of barracks bunks, or some sop to the military tailors.

It turns out to be some chunk of Georgian medical wooo.
The thinking being that somebody of exceptional stature must be lacking in some other factor.
Either weak minded (no comments please), or lacking in physical strength.

I'll now return this thread to its rightful subject matter.

[Raider4]

The photo of Paul sitting on the front of the tank, also helps me to  'get my head around' the size of some of the tanks themselves.
Bigger than I'd imagined.

Well, some are, some aren't .

Went to Bovington a fair few years ago, was stunned at how small things like the Panzer III and Cromwell were. Both had crews of 5. How?

Then you see the Panther and Jagdpanther, and boy are they huge!

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Lots of units had heights limits and average heights have been going up for the last century at least, as we get better diet. Pre WWII the Grenadier Guards had one of 5'10" (may be more) and City of Westminster Police used to require officers to be at least 6'.

[fsn]

Simone Segouin, mostly known by her codename, Nicole Minet, was only 18-years-old when the Germans invaded. Her first act of rebellion was to steal a bicycle from a German military administration, and to slice the tires of all of the other bikes and motorcycles so they couldn't pursue her. She found a pocket of the Resistance and joined the fight, using the stolen bike to deliver messages between Resistance groups.

She was an extremely fast learner and quickly became an expert at tactics and explosives. She led teams of Resistance fighters to capture German troops, set traps, and sabotage German equipment. As the war dragged on, her deeds escalated to derailing German trains, blocking roads, blowing up bridges and helping to create a German-free path to help the Allied forces retake France from the inside. She was never caught.

Segouin was present at the liberation of Chartres on August 23, 1944, and then the liberation of Paris two days later. She was promoted to lieutenant and awarded several medals, including the Croix de Guerre. After the war, she studied medicine and became a pediatric nurse. She is still going strong, and this October (2021) she will turn 96. ❤️

[Steve J]

Wow, what a life!

[Techno II]

What Steve said !

I'm in awe of people like that.

Cheers - Phil.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Fortuneatly we didn't need to do that sort of thing

[paulr]

 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

This may well be of interest :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFkFTtWQfXo&fbclid=IwAR2xqeqQzNBiYQzeRrkUrRVPwCWWZHXBTPKGgyAeGDnI-c0bId9BozJ38Z8