basic impetus 2

[petercooman]

Interested in these for the moment, how are they compared to the first edition?

Was going to use ancient and medieval wargaming by Neil Thomas,but the copies i can find are scarce and costly!

Mostly interested in Normans and Anglo-saxons for 1066 and hoplite armies.

I can off course just use the rules from Neil Thomas' wargaming: an introduction, but i like the small table impetus (first edition) had going on!

[Leman]

I have had a number of games with them now. I much prefer them to the original and even the main rules. No faffing about with opportunity. Instead defenders can fire back if they pass a morale test. There are dozens of army lists included with the rules (none of the silly DBM money spinner nonsense). Each army list produces a small army, but there are substitutions available as well so that two or more versions of an army list can be combined, then divided into three battles, as in the main Impetus rules, to produce a bigger game. I really rate them. 

[petercooman]

So the "double army" from first edition impetus is still an option?

I know you play some Neil Thomad rules as well, how do they compare to his rules? Slightly more complex? (Never played ancients outside of first edition impetus so can't compare)

[Fenton]

The BI rules have been extended with some extra rules and the army lists have been expanded with more options for each army list

[petercooman]

The BI rules have been extended with some extra rules and the army lists have been expanded with more options for each army list

That's good. More options are always nice. That's one thing holding me back from using wargaming:an introduction. No dark age army lists.

[rct75001]

A group of us have been playing Impetus in its various versions for close to 6 years now.  While I had no prior experience in the period, the others all grew up through WRG and DBxx styles. 

We love the rules - most prefer the full version (of which a new version in due late this year - we are playtesting it), but we all moved to Basic Impetus 2 about 2 years ago in an attempt to get more people into the period as it gives a quicker, simpler game than the main rules and needs less of an outlay to acquire an army.  At home on our own we will move to Impetus 2 when they come out as it a much more nuanced game - with similar mechanisms to Baroque if you know them.

Richard

[petercooman]

HAven't played baroque i'm afraid!

[Norm]

Peter, at the moment the Neil Thomas ancient and medieval rules are available on the Kindle via Amazon for £6.64, that is the cheapest I have seen them on there.

[petercooman]

Yes i know. But i prefer to have them in book form and that's pretty expensive. Factoring in that i don't know if hastings is covered in them, it's a bit of a gamble.

[petercooman]

Must admit though, if i didn't already play some of the Neil Thomas rules, i would go with basic impetus 2. However, having all rulesets with the same mechanics would be nice. I could off course play both!

[Leman]

Not played the Neil Thomas ancient rules. My go to rules for the period at present are To the Strongest and BI2. Play a lot of FoG, but always as a sub-general as they are not my cup of tea and are far too nuanced for my liking. Even if there is an Impetus 2 I will not be buying as I found Impetus 1 was relatively straightforward to start with until the competition brigade got hold of it and more and more complexity was introduced ruining it as an enjoyable game. I can't imagine a second edition will be any less complex, especially as it has now become a staple of the competition circuit.

[petercooman]

I bit the bullet and ordered a copy of ancient and medieval wargaming. A new copy just appeared on ebay for 21.5£ (shipping included).

I found an old post on TMP where Norm mentioned it included an anglo saxon list so i was happy to go with Neil Thomas once more. Although i have played basic impetus before, i always went pretty slow in those games (mainly because the rules were new). Getting a ruleset in the same fashion and from the same author as my napoleonic one allows me to focus less on rules and more on the game.

At 3,18€ on wargamevault, basic impetus 2 was a tempting offer though! I could pick them up anyway to try them, but i suspect i will not play them if i have the A&Mw option!

[petercooman]

Even if there is an Impetus 2 I will not be buying as I found Impetus 1 was relatively straightforward to start with until the competition brigade got hold of it and more and more complexity was introduced ruining it as an enjoyable game. I can't imagine a second edition will be any less complex, especially as it has now become a staple of the competition circuit.

I find the standard impetus rules an odd duck. If you can have all army lists in basic impetus, why on earth would you have 5 supplements for a (mostly) similar ruleset?

[petercooman]

Reflecting on yet another "standardized" ruleset here:

http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,17523.0.html

[Zippee]

I find the standard impetus rules an odd duck. If you can have all army lists in basic impetus, why on earth would you have 5 supplements for a (mostly) similar ruleset?

Basic Impetus and Impetus are different rule sets. They're akin in relationship as DBA and DBM(M) are, similar biscuits but only one has chocolate.

Initially Basic Impetus was the free to download intro/entry level trailer to Impetus. Then it gained a momentum and popularity of its own and the constant demands for expansion and update resulted in the release of Basic Impetus II, no longer free but a complete set of rules complete with all its army lists. Personally I thought this was a bad idea as it just dilutes the market but hey-ho I'm not the author. Basic Impetus II is now even less similar to Impetus as a result, it waits to be seen how similar to Impetus II it might be. FWIW as a long standing Impetus player I find Basic Impetus II deeply flawed and broken as a game. It took us maybe 3 games to realise that and we haven't played since, much preferring the added depth of Impetus. That does leave us looking at the imminent release of Impetus II with some trepidation.

Impetus itself has soldiered on without update or revision. The release of Impetus II has been much delayed whilst other rules systems were generated and/or updated - especially Baroque which uses a very similar platform. Impetus was never intended to have all its army lists included in one volume but always to have supplemental army lists. Impetus II is now scheduled for release August/September at which point we'll find out what the final changes are - we're mostly expecting it to be more streamlined and cleaner than before with a lot of the development that went into Baroque translating across. My understanding is that it will come with a handful of lists (as did Baroque) with the rest being developed and posted for free download (as with Baroque).

Impetus II is not a product of 'tournament' players, I've been as involved as anyone on the forums and I abhor tournaments. But ancients gaming is heavily predicated on points per side 'competition' style gameplay, you'd be a fool not to recognise that as a rules publisher. The adaptions to Impetus that have been released were partly aimed at that style of play but really the bulk of Advanced Impetus is clarifications with some separate competition game options. They have also been used as a method of playtesting some rule concepts it's true but they were offered as a free download document so as not to fall down the DBx rabbit hole of 1.1, 1.2, 1.2a, etc. If you have the original rulebook, that is Impetus (errata aside), use of Advanced Impetus in whole or part is purely optional.