For King and Parliament publishing update

[d_Guy]

Evening All

A basing question for Mollinary/D Guy:

Paul and I have agreed that FK&P are worth investing in when they come out next month. Looks like we will be using 15cm squares with 12cm wide bases for foot and horse units. We normally use 6x4 or 6x5 tables and looks like we will try chits rather than cards.  
...
We have both come up with lists totalling around 1200 figures   each using the following numbers per 12cm base based on earlier lists we were looking at originally for Baroque:

Pike and Musket unit 40 figures total, 24 Shot 16 Pike/command figures
Irregulars (Highland Clan) base 30 figures total
Dismounted Dragoons 20 figures total, 16 shot, 4 horse holders
Regular Cavalry 12 - 15 figures total
Artillery 1 Gun/3 - 4 crew per base

My question is would F&KP units use around the same number of figures per 12cm base or do we need to cut down our numbers a bit?
...

Molllinary (the co-designer with Simon Miller) may be snowed in, so hopefully this is useful:

Both Baroque and FK&P assume roughly 500 man foot battalia (and all else realative to that). There is no required figure to unit ratio, pretty much what is aesthetically pleasing to you. Mollinary uses ratios similar to what you propose and they make the units look dense (which is accurate imho). I use about half that number, but I play on 10cm boxes.

Be aware that FK&P allows TWO units to be in a box (with specific rules for how that works). This means that your base depth needs to account for this possibility. This arrangement was brought forward from To The Strongest! where it is tactically neccessary.  The rules will likely say that the tactical formations of the c. 17th will probably limit its use. (I have found it useful for starting deployments).

Both Mollinary and I use sabots to assemble units out of smaller stands.

Incidently FK&P provides for three classes of artillery, Siege, Field, and Light. Light are represented by markers that travel with another unit. Frame Guns would be an example of the latter.

[d_Guy]

Now that is a very good point...so ideally you need 4 sets of chits numbered 1 to 10?

Ideally, SIX sets of 1 to 10 chits (or cards), 120 per side. Four sets would be minimum. But honestly, what ever you and your opponent agree on, imho.

The chits are used for both activation (which remain on the board until a player's turn is over) and for various types of resolution.
In play testing I used a number of different schemes (immediately returning the resolution chits to the draw bag, for example, and using the same chit set for both sides). Mollinary reports using chits for activation and cards for resolution. Each approach, obviously, effects the odds of a given draw.

[mollinary]

Evening All

A basing question for Mollinary/D Guy:

Paul and I have agreed that FK&P are worth investing in when they come out next month. Looks like we will be using 15cm squares with 12cm wide bases for foot and horse units. We normally use 6x4 or 6x5 tables and looks like we will try chits rather than cards.  

I've been trying pull together a list of what PM (and other manufacturers   ) figures I might use for a Scots W3K (Montrose and Covenant) force. Meanwhile. in between painting AWI stuff and mowing his lawn, Paul is looking at getting a south of the border force (Parliament/Royalist/New Model) so a refight of Dunbar 1650 might be on the cards at some stage (hopefully with a better result to the Scots   ).

We have both come up with lists totalling around 1200 figures   each using the following numbers per 12cm base based on earlier lists we were looking at originally for Baroque:

Pike and Musket unit 40 figures total, 24 Shot 16 Pike/command figures
Irregulars (Highland Clan) base 30 figures total
Dismounted Dragoons 20 figures total, 16 shot, 4 horse holders
Regular Cavalry 12 - 15 figures total
Artillery 1 Gun/3 - 4 crew per base

My question is would F&KP units use around the same number of figures per 12cm base or do we need to cut down our numbers a bit?

Thanks in advance for any guidance on this question.

If you are in UK/Europe stay safe and look out for the Beast from the East...looks very cold over there from what I saw on the TV news just before.

Cheers
Peter

Hi Peter,

D'Guy has given you a good run down so far, but, for what it is worth, this is my take.   Number of figures is entirely up to you, whatever you think looks good. My unit sizes are dictated by the the fact that twenty odd years ago I started basing on 1 1/2" squares with the intention of modifying Volley and Bayonet for the ECW and using three bases to a unit. I got a long way with the figures, but not far with the rules!  This means my basic unit size is 4 1/2" wide, plus an extra 10mm for the width of the lip on the sabots I use. So my total unit width is 5" or 125mm, so your 12cm Units are as near to mine as makes no difference. My foot units have about 40 figures, and the standard horse 15. My highlanders have 10-11 per base, so about 30. The dismounted dragoons 12-15 figures. The horse holder base is a marker in FK&P, and so is entirely separate. Mine has a single horse holder and 4-5 horses.

So, bottom line, your current plans are spot on for an army based like mine, but you can alter them as you see fit. The rules are designed for any scale of figures, so you have maximum flexibility. If you haven't got your armies yet, then you can choose a grid size appropriate to your table, and then size your units to fit. If you have your army then you can choose a grid size to suit that.  

I hope you enjoy the Rules when they come out, and if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Mollinary


   

[mollinary]

Now that is a very good point...so ideally you need 4 sets of chits numbered 1 to 10?

Hi Bunny,

Depends what you mean by a set?  The base set of rules, To the Strongest, use playing cards. Simon recommends each player has two standard packs, with the court cards removed - so a pack of 80. The chits he sells come in packs of 80.  Now, for a one on one game you will need two sets, one for each player. For multi player games, it works best if each player has his own set, but if you want players to play I. Sequence rather than simultaneously, then you can get away with two packs.  For FK&P you can use the same number. However, the introduction of shooting, and the innovation of drawing two cards hitting on 8+s for all the occasions where in TtS you draw one card hitting on a 6+, means you can get through the cards rather more rapidly than in TtS,. So, if you think this dramatically affects the odds as you get towards the end of your turn, you may wish to increase the number to 120.    As d'Guy says, I have got round this by using chits for activations, placing them next to Units, and cards for combat hits/saves etc. Placing them at the back of the table. I think it works better this way round with the smaller scales, but it is entirely a matter of personal taste.

Mollinary

[pierre the shy]

Thanks for the replies on my number of figures question Mollinary and D Guy - very helpful indeed.

We haven't got any existing troops for this period yet, so we will have a chat during tonight's DBMM game to see what we do figures wise.

Cheers
Peter

[paulr]

Thanks Mollinary and d Guy much food for thought

As Peter mentioned we typically play on a 6x4 or 6x5 tables, so with a 15cm grid would get a grid 12x10 or 12x8. From the test game I saw this seems adequate, how does this compare to the recommended size in the rules?

[fred.]

Regarding grids - for Rommel I've found a 12cm grid works well with 10mm figures, and on a 4' deep table gives you 10 squares rather than 8 (with a 15cm grid). Can be useful if you want a slightly larger battlefield.

[mollinary]

Thanks Mollinary and d Guy much food for thought

As Peter mentioned we typically play on a 6x4 or 6x5 tables, so with a 15cm grid would get a grid 12x10 or 12x8. From the test game I saw this seems adequate, how does this compare to the recommended size in the rules?

Hi Paul,

As in TtS the 'standard' grid is 12 x 8. If you were looking to do a particular historical encounter, then the average box is about 100yds square.

Andrew

[paulr]

Thanks, I'll have a look at some maps of historic battles

[mollinary]

Thanks, I'll have a look at some maps of historic battles

Hi Paul,

Not unnaturally, I have looked at quite a few as we have play tested!   For the big ones, my Edgehill came in at 27 x 12, Naseby at 24 x 12.
Have yet to do Marston Moor, but it would be about 30-34 x 12. This would certainly be your largest

Hope this helps,

Andrew

[Leman]

It does sound a little larger than 12 by 8. I'm more interested in the early war western campaigns which had much smaller battles.

[paulr]

Thanks Mollinary, very useful, we could easily do a 24x10 grid 

[d_Guy]

For those that have not seen the announcement, For King and Parliament has been published and can be found at Simon's BigRedBatCave store.

[mollinary]

For those that have not seen the announcement, For King and Parliament has been published and can be found at Simon's BigRedBatCave store.

Thanks for this, Bill. Yes, it is quite true, much to our surprise it is up and running before SALUTE, and so is a new series fo markers for those who prefer mdf markers to show ammo and unit status.  As before, I will try and answer questions folks may have on here, or you can visit the To the Strongest forum, where there is a separate thread for 'For King and Parliament'.

Mollinary

[d_Guy]

Excellent - wish I could make it to Salute to see the demo.
I really believe the rules will become very popular.

I wanted to get an OK from Leon before doing a direct link
(Which he has graciously given):

For King and Parliament
https://bigredbatshop.co.uk/collections/all/wargames-rules

And no - I don't own stock
Just like how these have turned out.