For King and Parliament Rules

[pierre the shy]

A group of lucky playtesters were trying out FK&P rules at our local club today so I managed to sneak along for about 10 minutes for a very quick look (literally since Mrs Shy and kids were waiting for me).

Should I have been surprised that Paul was already there keenly observing the game?   Not really since I parked behind his car and I had mentioned the game to him previously.

Managed to get in a quick chat and look at the game before my brownie points ran out (Mrs Shy has been in hospital for a couple of days, needs a bit of a rest so I get to run around for her - hmm that sounds familiar   )

evidently the rules are to be published around April 2018 so will be on the lookout for them then as I'm still keen on doing ECW in 10mm north of the border at some stage    

Paul might have a bit more to say as he was around for a while longer than me.  

[paulr]

I was there for about 4 hours watching the game and partaking in the free pizza to mark the last club meeting of the year

The guys had played quite a bit of To the Strongest but this was their first game of For King and Parliament and it showed

As Peter noted they were play testing and used The Battle of Lessies Moor scenario,  d-Guy's version is here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=16602.0

It was interesting watching and reading the rules. The guys quickly became more familiar with the rules and turns moved much quicker after the Pizza

I've not played any gridded games before but this didn't seem to effect the tactical flexibility for this period
The guys were using 12" square carpet tiles to create the grid but were playing on a 6" grid, dividing each 12" square into four by eye

The mechanisms worked very smoothly and gave the sort of results expected but still allowed for some surprise

Being card based rather than dice gave a different feel, several times player decisions were impacted by the cards already drawn

The key decisions seem to be where to place generals and the order to activate units
Do you do the important but complex and so more likely to fail move (risking stopping the rest of the brigade) or do you do several less important but more likely to pass moves (risking one of them fails...)

Comparing the rules to Baroque
- working through individual units of each brigade in turn feels similar to Baroque and having a command test failure stop the brigade gives an appropriate level of uncertainty for the period
- the ability to activate units more than once, with increasing difficulty, allows good variation in movement
- there are few if any opportunities for the 'passive' player to react but units do get to fight back, this seems to aid the flow of the game
- having hits accumulate directly (with no Cohesion test) seems more natural but it does mean that fewer hits are scored
  (30% chance or 20% if disordered with 1 or 2 attempts being the norm, more in cavalry melees if units still have 'dash' and loaded pistols, flank attacks double the number of attempts)
- like Baroque there are several markers required and an elegant way of making these easy to identify and change without being visually distracting will be important (d_Guy's dice look to be a promising approach)

Overall an interesting set of rules and well worth a look when they come out, apparently now targeted for Salute next year

[d_Guy]

Interesting reading, gentlemen, particularly Paul's comparison to Baroque which seems accurate.

At one point the thinking was that the rules might be released earlier in PDF form, with the hard copy being introduced at Salute in mid-April.
I don't know if that is still the thinking but Mollinary can give definitive information.

Incidently I ported my Baroque Markers over to FK&P and the tiny dice frames are a feature of my basing. Mollinary uses dice frames also for his 10's (and I think 6's, as well). I use mine for tracking ammo and dash.

Being card based rather than dice gave a different feel, several times player decisions were impacted by the cards already drawn

Placing all the non-activation card draws facedown after use, using multiple decks (a' la Los Vegas blckjack) and being sure to reshuffle between turns helps reduce the "gaminess".
I recently did a (rather pendantic) post about using cards vs dice:

https://inredcoatragsattired.com/2017/11/25/a-dice-tower-for-cards/

One argument I make for cards is the "right time" argument. In a nutshell, competent field commanders usually had a situational sense about when to attack or maneuver - I think cards add that "sense"

Agree that Baroque allows for more passive reactions (but not substantially more). Since I play solo I uses random selection of which Brigade (on both sides) will next attempt to activate. This tends to make entire Brigades "reactive". Have no idea how this would work in multiplayer - probably frustrate everyone!

@Pierre - As you are also interested in "North of the Boarder", my units are now down to ~22 figures each (75mm x 25mm unit bases) which fit well in 100mm grid boxes. Lots of action in a small area. You could build armies on the cheap (and still pad them out with added pieces for larger grids or Baroque).

I will continue to follow your groups possible move into ECW with great interest.

[paulr]

An interesting reply and blog post

There were definitely several "right time" moments (after a run of low cards) and also a couple of "not the right time" moments (after a run of high cards)

There were also some amusing card related banter between the two players on each side. After one particularly disastrous series of combats (due to drawing low cards) the losing player passed the deck to his partner and muttered, "well at least I've primed the deck for you"

Overall I think the card feel adds to the game

One other suggestion I've seen is using small numbered MDF tokens drawn from a bag rather than cards, to remove the shuffling challenge and to reduce the space and visual impact of the activation cards. I wonder what a set of say 80 2cm square MDF tokens numbered 1-10 would cost

[d_Guy]

Actually, Simon has custom ones at his on-line store:
https://bigredbatshop.co.uk/collections/all/products/chits-of-war

They are a set of chits for all aspects of TtS! but the activation set (which would replace cards) would work for both. Possibly Simon could break those out for you. I have thought of using them but like the “flashy” cards

[mollinary]

One other suggestion I've seen is using small numbered MDF tokens drawn from a bag rather than cards, to remove the shuffling challenge and to reduce the space and visual impact of the activation cards. I wonder what a set of say 80 2cm square MDF tokens numbered 1-10 would cost :-

Hi Paul,  

I must confess, it feels slightly surreal having people on the other side of the world playing rules I co-wrote, and a scenario which emerged entirely from my fevered imagination!  Not sure if your question re mdf tokens is intended to be ironic (?) but for other readers who might be less familiar with Simon Miller's To the Strongest rules, such tokens are available from www.bigredbatshop.co.uk .  It is true that with the firing and combat  one can get through Cards much quicker in fKaP than in TtS.  It is why we suggest having a pack of 120cards per player, rather than the usual 80.  However, I have come round to the idea of having a set of 80 cards, and a set of 80 chits. I use the chits for activations, as they are less intrusive in the smaller scales,  and the cards for combat. Either way the cards/chits are returned and remixed after each player's activation is over.  The cards I use are actually quarter size.  

Best,

Mollinary

[paulr]

No irony intended, merely ignorance on my part
So the answer is £10 for 80 activation chits, 13 stratagem chits and 50 ammo markers

To further demonstrate my ignorance I hadn't made the connection between Mollinary and the rules 

Using two different sets of 'cards' will impact the "right moment" effect that d_Guy commented on, effectively giving you two possible "right moment" streams

The rules give a jolly good game and were enjoyed by all four players and a number of spectators
The scenario worked very well and set up several interesting challenges while exercising a lot of different aspects of the rules

PS The players were slightly embarrassed about the delay in getting the test game played, expect some feedback soon

[mollinary]

So the answer is £10 for 80 activation chits, 13 stratagem chits and 50 ammo markers

To further demonstrate my ignorance I hadn't made the connection between Mollinary and the rules 

PS The players were slightly embarrassed about the delay in getting the test game played, expect some feedback soon

Hi Paul,

Hav e mailed Simon tonight, and he is thinking of separating out the activation chits and ammo chits. It might take a week, but probably worth the wait, unless you need a lot of arrow chits!   

For 'Allo, Allo' fans this is an 'It is I, LeClerc' moment. Lifting pince nez from nose. Yes, I got into this because I had a huge collection of 10mm figures and no rules I liked. Collected rules for twenty years, but none of them worked for me. Thought Baroque would be the one, but I couldn't Get my mind around some of the mechanisms. Then I came across TtS, and was convinced we could do something, so, thanks to Simon, here we are.

Re feedback, my recommendation would be to get it in soon, we are in final proof reading mode!

Re a pdf, it may emerge, but don't hold your breath -we are focussed on getting the whole shebang ready for SALUTE.

Best,

Le Clerc!

[paulr]

Interesting Simon is looking to split off the ammo markers as I would lean towards using mini-dice to track dash and ammo as seen in d_Guy's posts

I'm a long way from buying anything at the moment, I have over a thousand AWI figures that I should have in my hands tomorrow that will keep me busy for a while

From what I have seen so far there will be a lot of people grateful for your work with Simon

[mollinary]

Interesting Simon is looking to split off the ammo markers as I would lean towards using mini-dice to track dash and ammo as seen in d_Guy's posts

From what I have seen so far there will be a lot of people grateful for your work with Simon

I have markers with dice for both ammo expenditure (foot) and dash (horse). This is not a result of deep intellectual  thought, but the fact that I also ha floats of these markers from an abortive attempt to turn Conmands and Colors into an ECW Set, where they represented number of blocks in a unit.  However, when I went to use mdf Sabots to contain my bases (having a single base for a unit really speeds up the game) I found that the rear rim provided the opportunity to include masses of unit info and so dispense with markers. My latest Bases include the name of the unit, its status (Raw, Seasoned, Veteran) its Army and brigade affiliation (coloured blocks at either end of the Marker) , unit type (Swedish, Dutch, Pike Heavy etc etc) and the number of ammo/dash it has. The whole Marker is covered in transparent adhesive paper, which I apply while the unit markers are still on the full sheet of card. This allows the ammo/dash to be crossed off with non permanent  marker pens, which can be wiped clean at the end of the Battle.  You can also use chits, as in TtS, and Simon has some lovely ECW ones in the pipeline.

Thanks for the compliment. I am most grateful to Simon  for agreeing to do this. It has been great fun, it has encouraged me to go back to all my ECW books, and acquire many more, to go Battlefield walking again, and to get the collection out of mothballs. What is not to like!?

[pierre the shy]

Thanks for all the input on this thread everyone...looking forward to trying these next year.

If I happen to win Lotto Powerball I will come over to pick up a copy at Salute personally 

[fred.]

Yes, I got into this because I had a huge collection of 10mm figures and no rules I liked. Collected rules for twenty years, but none of them worked for me. Thought Baroque would be the one, but I couldn't Get my mind around some of the mechanisms. Then I came across TtS, and was convinced we could do something, so, thanks to Simon, here we are.

I am definitely interested in these rules. I too have tried Baroque, but have really struggled with it, and can't really see how I would get my group to play. We have had a look at Too the Strongest and like a number of the ideas in it, so all sounds good.