A rules question and a history question

[Sojka]

Hello all.

I have been working with Battlefront WW2's rules for battalion(ish) level wargaming, but I am not sure I am sold on basing at the squad level (and multiple tanks per platoon) in a battalion / regimental / task force sort of game. It feels a bit too granular for this level of game. Are there any games that work at this level (Mixed Batallion/task force/regiment) that base by platoon? How does BKC handle basing?

Also, Battlefront WWII asks for transports (such as an armored infantry company's halftracks) to be represented on the table. in WWII, did transports like halftracks play any real role in combat? I was always under the impression that the infantry would dismount some distance from contested areas, advancing and fighting on foot, leaving the transports some distance behind in rear areas, out of (most) harms way. Is this wrong?

Thanks much,

Sojka

[Ithoriel]

We play BKC as one base = a platoon.

Figures per base is pretty much up to the player, so long as it's clear what it represents. I have 1 vehicle, 4 - 6 infantry or a couple of heavy weapons per base on my 10mm stands. Command stands tend to be a bit more diorama-ish.

Transport, especially half tracks, seem to have been involved in combat from time to time but I'm not sure it was always intentional.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

On the last point, it depends on the army. German doctrine was to support with half-tracks as almost mini tanks, whereas the British Infantry de-bussed (never dismounted, that's for cavalry) at the first sign of trouble.
Americans just depended how aggressive

[paulr]

Spearhead is a set of rules where bases are platoons, you give orders to battalions and typically field a brigade / regiment

Although you can field a lot more if you want

[Fenton]

It's a very personal thing but I prefer Command Decision (Test of Battle) over Spearhead

[toxicpixie]

On the last point, it depends on the army. German doctrine was to support with half-tracks as almost mini tanks, whereas the British Infantry de-bussed (never dismounted, that's for cavalry) at the first sign of trouble.
Americans just depended how aggressive

Maybe with engineer half tracks with flamethrowers, but IIRC manuals actually say half tracks dismount about a kilometre out as they're too vulnerable to fire to take closer. They can then support by fire as the infantry goes in on foot.

Anyway, more on point, I like Spearhead for regimental ish games. One stand per platoon (ish, one stand is normally five vehicles so a three platoon Of three tanks each is two stands on table not three), no awkward "how damaged is X" (you're either fine suppressed or dead - about right for Colonel as opposed to the lieutenant!), and the focus is on making command decisions not tactical sub unit moves (on table movement of stands is quite restricted, so you have to get your plan and support and reserves right). It doesn't suit many but it's a good simulation that plays a great game. The fan made scenario system is a must though - the scenario books are often woefully unbalanced (Iron Crosses, I'm looking at you!).

BKC works nicely as well, gives a fast game without much faff. Some subsystems seem odd but the *result* tends to come out right so if don't mind the Warmaster style command system it's good

[paulr]

A good summary of Spearhead

The rules work really well for refighting historic battles and the Scenario system gives really good varied games
As one of the 'fans' involved I may be a little biased 

[Sojka]

Thanks for the tips all! I appreciate it. I will try to find a set for Spearhead and BKC.

[toxicpixie]

I think Caliver May still have Spearhead, or if not Spirit Games usually have a treasure trove of rules sets! BKC2 pdf is available still isn't it?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

On tactics all armies would dismount for a serious attack, as the 1/2 tracks were far too vulnerable in a close assault. However both the US and German armies were prepared to launch a mounted assault against weak opposition but the word to stress there is weak. Otherwise the vehicles would either withdraw out of sight, or remain so. They could be used to assist their infantry on to the objective as a fire base.

Note also that the main role for Armoured infantry and Panzer Grenadiers was to support their tanks by holding an objective. Indeed the M3/M5 has mine racks down the sides of the vehicles for just that purpose.

Rules wise, Battlegroup is good, but has some silly ideas, Spearhead makes the US supertroopers, and it's scenarios are both pro German and inaccurate (one has a DD rgt in Churchill's !).
As has already been said - with BKC use what looks right, our large CWC games have as many base sizes and figures on bases as there are players.

IanS

[paulr]

A few minor tweaks can sort out any inappropriate biases in Spearhead

They work really well for historic scenarios and the "fan written" scenario system which gives very good and varied games can be found here https://ww2spearhead.wordpress.com/scenario-generation-system/

[toxicpixie]

Ian, you have an odd view of Spearhead - the US aren't super by any means, and are a substantial step down from the Germans - and are almost exactly the same as the U.K. & Commonwealth post '42... actually slightly weaker

The rules are flexible and simple enough to change even that - e.g. you could play the '44 Panzer Brigades getting chopped up by Pattons armour very easily by treating the US as Germans for command and the Germans as some flavour of poor Russians without getting complex at all.

As to their OOBs, well. Wargames rules plus OOBs are almost always full of interesting choices... the only real issue is pitching the level to play at, as the divisional orbats included mean no Corps support or Army level troops, and are by nature very generic. There's loads more on the website as "official" extras, too, if you're not fussed to do your own research

The scenario system nicely addressed that all together though and produces excellent period feeling Games with likely WW2 forces and missions, as well.

[toxicpixie]

Oh yes, I wouldn't disagree on your assessment of the published "official" scenario books though, at least "Where the iron crosses grow". It's "best possible germans against worst possible Russians" all the way through. The other books are better, but still have an awkward & not very factual pro-German slant in many cases. Forgotten Battles is probably the best of them.

The Spearhead Scenario Generator on the other hand doesn't, and is much better put together - it produces mildly asymmetrical games which are both playable and realistic for the period, drives players towards using historical orbats without being prescriptive and is very simple to play!

Paul linked above

[paulr]

Toxicpixie, with your permission I'll pass your comments on to the author of the Scenario System

[toxicpixie]

I think I may have mentioned that on the Spearhead list directly (and possibly even directly to Keith, and almost certainly on the various blogs using it ), but please feel free!