1870 Prussian flags - colorful or black and white?

[mollinary]

Patrick, you are a man after my own heart! I went down these sort of routes a decade ago to find the Saxon flags, and was helped enormously by the staff at the Army Museum in Dresden, and even invited to go and see the originals held in their magazines. All the information was there, it was just the lack of English language sources which had kept it hidden from the watgaimng world. I look forward to hearing more about your investigations. Who knows, you may have inspired me to restart my own!

Mollinary

[Oat]

haha what can I say, us oddballs know how to find each other! Mollinary, have you seen/read "Die Fahnen und Standarten der Koniglich Sachsischen Armee 1806-1918" by Militarhistorische Schriften des Arbeitskreises Saschsische Militargeschichte e.V ? It's a fantastic source for Saxon flags. There is also Hottenroth: Sächsische Fahnen und Standarten. Though finding a copy outside of a library is next to impossible it seems :
In addition to obscure topics like the specific color of blue on three flags carried during the unification wars, I'm also a sucker for regimental histories and more specifically information on the logistics, specific lessons learned during the 1870 war (ie fighting in forests, urban settings, sieges) and the small war that was fought behind the front lines. I've been slowly amassing all the books I can find that were published on these subjects during the 19th-early 20th century in germany. 
Glad to find another person like me out there! haha 

[mollinary]

We nuts have to stick together!  I picked up the Arbeitskreis book when I visited the museum in Dresden, and then got a photocopy of Hottenroth and a CD of its colour illustrations from Historischer-Bilderdienst.de   

Keep,up the good work!

Mollinary

[cameronian]

Oat ... and others, if you are interested in regimental histories keep an eye out for forthcoming issues of the Foreign Correspondent. Dr Frederich Steinhardt, who has done such a magnificent job translating Heidrich and Fontane is planning to submit a series of articles based on regimental histories of the period, mostly Prussian.

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Resurrecting this thread.

I have what I assume to be an old Pendraken FPW set of Prussian flags with:
- 7 white field, no cross, orange centre (black eagle) with silver green surround and corner wreaths
- 2 black field, white cross, orange centre (black eagle) with gold surround and corner wreaths
- 4 white field, black cross, orange centre (black eagle) with gold surround and corner wreaths
- 12 white field, black cross, orange centre (black eagle) with silver green surround and corner wreaths.

The wedges are broader than on the picture of the current flags.

Are any of these usable or are they too inaccurate?  I will in any event be getting a sheet of newer flags but do not know if I could some use of some of the flags I have.

Basically I will end up with needing 2-4 Guard colours, plus at least 12-15 line infantry colours (as well as Hessian, Saxon, Bavarian, Baden etc colours) can get from other Pendraken sheets.   In the main I am aiming to have a colour per brigade for BBB purposes.

While I am at it does anyone know which colours either IR.75 or 76 carried in 17th Division? 

Kind regards.

Edward

[mollinary]

Hi Edward,

IR 75 and 76, raised in 1867,  had the model 1828 pattern for all their battalions - ie the black cross on white background with green/silver wreaths. Your earlier flag sheest are broadly accurate, as far as I recall, if a bit garish in colour (particularly the green). They may, however, be a slightly different size to the later ones.  The flags with the plain white fields are for Guard Fusiliers 3rd Battalion, all Battalions of the 3rd and 4th Foot Guards,  Guard Schutzen Battalion, Garde Pioneer Battalion, Guard Artillery. The ones with a white cross on a black field would work for landwehr units. The black cross on a white field flags with gold would work for a lot of units, but mostly IRs 13-30. The ones with the silver and green for most IRs from  IR 36 on.

Hope this quick note helps.

Mollinary

[mollinary]

Hi again  Edward,

Just had another thought. If your sheet has FPC2 Franco Prussian War Prussian Infantry written at the top of it , contains exactly what you described, except 3, rather than 4, of the black cross with gold wreaths, then it is actually a Baccus 6mm sheet!  It is fine for use with your army, and fits well on 10mm Pendraken flagpoles. In fact my  entire FPW/APW Prussian army of Pendraken figures uses these flags.  The white flags with black crosses which you describe are in fact for the first two battalions of the Guard Fusiliers, who took the old flags of the Guard Landwehr when they were formed. If you look carefully there should be small difference in some fo the flags with white fields, and these reflect the differences between flags for the 1st and 2nd Foot Guard Regiments  and the 3rd and 4th.

Hope this helps!

Andrew

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Thanks Andrew.

Hi again  Edward,

Just had another thought. If your sheet has FPC2 Franco Prussian War Prussian Infantry written at the top of it , contains exactly what you described, except 3, rather than 4, of the black cross with gold wreaths, then it is actually a Baccus 6mm sheet!  It is fine for use with your army, and fits well on 10mm Pendraken flagpoles. In fact my  entire FPW/APW Prussian army of Pendraken figures uses these flags.  The white flags with black crosses which you describe are in fact for the first two battalions of the Guard Fusiliers, who took the old flags of the Guard Landwehr when they were formed. If you look carefully there should be small difference in some fo the flags with white fields, and these reflect the differences between flags for the 1st and 2nd Foot Guard Regiments  and the 3rd and 4th.

Hope this helps!

Andrew

It is definitely a Pendraken sheet. I'll wait to get a new Pendraken set of flags and see what I can mix and match.  I might get a 6mm set form Peter at Baccus to compare size wise.

Kind regards

Edward

[mollinary]

Greetings

Thanks Andrew.

It is definitely a Pendraken sheet. I'll wait to get a new Pendraken set of flags and see what I can mix and match.  I might get a 6mm set form Peter at Baccus to compare size wise.

Kind regards

Edward

Edward,

How odd!  My only memory of an old Pendraken sheet also had a number of the more colourful flags carried by some of the Grenadier and Guard Grenadier Regiments in it. it was these whcih I found rather garish. Even more curious that it has such a similar breakdown to the Baccus sheet. As a matter of interest, if I  may, how big are the flags?

Best,

Andrew

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Edward,

How odd!  My only memory of an old Pendraken sheet also had a number of the more colourful flags carried by some of the Grenadier and Guard Grenadier Regiments in it. it was these whcih I found rather garish. Even more curious that it has such a similar breakdown to the Baccus sheet. As a matter of interest, if I  may, how big are the flags?

Best,

Andrew

Andrew - about 1cm square.

Edward

[mollinary]

Thanks Edward. The Baccus ones are a little smaller, at 9mm, but not much. As I say they work very well on the 10mm figures' flagpoles.

Andrew