Question about Impetus Baroque

[Zippee]

There is a link to Fat Frank's site on the Peter Pig website at the end of the ECW section. Well worth a look for Baroque inspiration in any scale.

Hmm, I think you mean Fat Wally - not sure Kev will take to being renamed Frank 

Direct link to Kev's Basic Baroque pages - http://www.fat-wally.com/BasicBaroqueECW.html

[mollinary]

Hard to estimate numbers of figures as there is no relationship between troop type and numbers as there is in say FOG.

Basing convention for 10mm is not established as its brand new but the rulebook suggests two options:
a) use the 15mm sizes with more figures
b) use half the 28mm sizes with 15mm measurements

As such each Horse unit will be a 120mm x 40mm (30mm as an option) base - I reckon that'll be 12 to 16 figures or thereabouts in 10mm. Each Pike & Musket unit will be 120mm x 40mm (60mm as an option) - I reckon I'll get about 48 figures on that. Guns are on 40mm square bases. Commanders how you see fit - I'll use circles with 2-4 officers.

Well that is a fortunate coincidence! My 10mm are currently based for Volley and bayonet on 1 1/2" squares.  I get three of these in one of my Warbases movement trays. So that is 3x37.5mm wide by 37.5mm deep. With the edges of  the movement base that comes to just over 120mm by 47mm!   I get between 15 and 18 horse on one of those bases, and 40 infantry  (so few because my musketeers are in two ranks of 10 while the pikes are four ranks of 4. Add in officers and colours, and you get about 40.

I wish postie would hurry up!

Mollinary

[Zippee]

Sounds like you're all sorted then 

My postie has been - he had several bills for me!

Bills, they're no good to me, I can't play with bills. I can pay 'em but that's not as much fun. 

[Leman]

Sorry Zippee, your quite right. Fat Frank is the roads man and Fat Wally is the 15mm figure painter.

[AndyT]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Much appreciated.

[Bodvoc]

OK, I give in, just ordered a copy

[Zippee]

Good man!

Pretty sure you wont regret it 

On the other hand it cost me a sizeable order with Pendraken 

But that's Ok as the profit from that will keep Leon in sun tan oil for the Summer 

[d_Guy]

But that's Ok as the profit from that will keep Leon in sun tan oil for the Summer 

Ah - the sun actually DOES shine there then!

[Zippee]

Middlesbrough?

Sure it's all beach resorts and swimming pools down on the Teesside Riviera

[Ithoriel]

You've never been there then Zippee?

A more wretched hive of scum and villainy ....

[mollinary]

I went to their website, went to the shop, and bought a copy via PayPal. I will let folks know when it arrives.

Mollinary

Arrived this morning - a week isn't bad coming from Italy over the long holiday weekend.  Looks good, but not yet had a lot of time to read through.

Mollinary

[Leman]

It still has a few quirks in the English version, where there appear to be literal translations rather than colloquial English, like what she is spoken, but it does play well, having had some games down the Liverpool club.

[Zippee]

You've never been there then Zippee?

A more wretched hive of scum and villainy ....

I was born there mate. . .

[d_Guy]

OK - I really like Baroque! So much in fact that I am on the verge of making a total commitment to it. I have used my kit-bashed rules but simply can't get them to the point where I am happy (plus too much effort that could be spent on other things).

For my Celtic Fringe (17th century) stuff I have had to add a few new troop types AND I had to do one major breakage - allow some troop types to be grouped in a couple specific ways. Turns out that I now also own Impetus and discover that it allows units to be grouped! Baroque has the concept of "Massed Unit" but no mention of grouping. Any thoughts on grouping and why it was left out of Baroque?

Incidentally I have not play-tested (solo) with groups sufficiently to know if they WILL work.

I am going to join the Impetus forum but I now consider this home (for good or ill😀) and wanted to start here with my queries.

[Zippee]

The absence of groups in Baroque is a good thing IMO.

Groups were a forced abstract to reinforce battlelines instead of firework displays of individual units, common in many ancients games under other rules.

With the larger bases and self-imposed battalia and tercio type units (and exactly what scale representation these are is left deliberately vague) which already have the subunits operating together the need to artificially glue stuff together is not needed.

Now in Impetus command range is much greater and the morale system is very different, such that a general's influence can be passed down entire lines of groups, so your warband of celts 12 bases/units long is still in command even if C class, as long as none of the units are disordered as the command range is automatic through contiguous ordered units.

In Baroque the VD concept of exhausted and withdrawn with much smaller command ranges from generals not permanently attached to specific units means that commands must form in greater depth in chequer board or multi wave formations if they are to stay in range. A Poor Command rating only has a range of 2BU - you just cant keep many units within that unless they are in front and behind - 3 wide is your limit.

In short groups don't stand alone they are integrated into the morale and command system.

Massed units are similar but not the same as Impetus Large Units - combat is entirely different as is the formation of the unit.

Many of the developments in Baroque are making their way into Impetus II but its unclear whether the refined morale system will and the jury is also out on the necessity to keep groups. I doubt large units will remain in the way they are currently.

There is a whole thread ion the Impetus Forum dedicated to suggestions for Impetus II and another for suggestions for inclusion in Advanced Impetus (the downloadable, annually updated errata and additional rules addition) wherein ideas are tested and then changed, adapted or dropped after a year's or so playtesting