What are some good Ancients Wargaming rules?

[Bloodaxe]

Im looking for a good set of wargaming rules for Ancients. Romans & their allies, enemies. 10mm or even 6mm. Decent rules but not overly complicated, with army lists for different armies like Romans, Carthage, etc.

Any recommendations or reviews?
Perhaps a battle report as an example of how the rules work?

Ive seen a few around , but am not sure which are best.

Polemos/SPQR
Hail Caesar
Impetus
To the Strongest


I am in the USA, so some may be harder to get. I prefer a dead tree version over PDF.

Let me know your opinion.

[Fenton]

Big question

I like Basic Impetus which is free, but overly keen on the fullprice version

To the strongest is intriguing me at present as well but having a think first

Not a huge fan of HC but it has its merits and f you like Warmaster you will like it but I think it need quite a few house rules

Not a huge fan of the Polemos system, but the rules tend not to work in my opinion

I like Sword and Spear as well and it has some interesting ideas in it

My two all time favourites are Vis Bellica and Armati but might be hard to find now

[Leman]

I only play Impetus and DBA, except for the Dark Ages, where I play both Dux Bellorum and Dux Britanniarum.

[Zippee]

My first vote would be for Impetus. We played 4 games and immediately rebased several thousand DBx figures, totally sold, works quickly, efficiently and offers good decisions making gameplay. However it is in dire need of having all the errata and updates consolidated - a 2nd edition is due but not sure when. Good online support though.

However I think that TTS has some real merit - but probably for large multi player/ convention style games. Haven't actually played yet though but intend to spend some time with Simon at Salute - maybe get a bit of a go then.

Sword & Spear has its admirers - it has good points (C&C) and poor (combat and lists) - only played a couple of games though and I suspect they are much better if heavy infantry is your bag, we tried them with late Romans and Sassanids and they did not work well.

Sorry haven't got any AAR to point you to

Personally I'd steer clear of Polemos - I've tried to like them (all the other periods), I really have but they just fail for me - too clunky. Similarly Hail Caesar is lovely as a book but not so much as a rule set - very loose and wooly, requires substantial input off your own back.

Hope that helps

[Bloodaxe]

If Hail Caesar is like Warmaster and uses the rules that missile fire does not cause casualties, but only "disrupts" a unit- then its NOT for me.

[Fenton]

Missile fire causes  for casualties in Warmaster doesn't it?, or have I been playing it wrong?. In HC they do for sure

[fred.]

WM can cause casualties with combined missile fire - but light fire does only tend to disrupt (in a slightly strange way).

HC is pretty good - we played it heavily for some time - but struggled to add the Fantasy elements we wanted to it.

Impetus - read lots of good things about (see above!) but couldn't understand it well enough to attempt to play it.

[Last Hussar]

I like the way missile fire in WMA works - it doesn't kill units, but slows them down and makes them harder to co-ordinate.

HC is probably more like BP, which DID evolve from WM, but solves the problems that meant I never played the musket adaptations of WM,like ACWmaster.

Instead of hits removing bases, it causes hits which stay with the unit. These can be rallied off.  When a unit receives as many hits as its stamina it is 'Shaken'.  Hits over Stamina act as a minus on morale tests (these excess ones are removed after the test).  A typical BP unit gets 3 shooting and 6 Melee dice, 4+ hits.  Saves ('Morale') usually 4+ - some units may get 3+ or poor units 5+.

Because a Brigade Commander can only rally one unit per turn, it takes a long time to get a battered brigade back into shape, meaning reserves are important (We play that you can rally 'Broken Brigades')

TFL also do a set of ancients
http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22
But you'd have to print them yourself

[GordonY]

WRG 6th Edition

well somebody had to say it 

The only wargames rules I know of where your late Roman legionary would need a golf cart to lug around all their missile weapons Pilum/Javelin/Darts, and they all caused casulties to the charging hairy barbarians (all at different ranges and all fired in the same turn). Very old school and the Barkerese is a bit heavy going at times but still one of their finest works.

[Ithoriel]

Warmaster Ancients for big games and DBA 3.0 for small ones at the moment.

[Bloodaxe]

I could be remembering wrong. I played Warmaster when it was first released. Missiles didn't destroy units tgen, if I remember right.  It was something I disliked.

[Ithoriel]

Having played Warmaster since about a fortnight before it was officially released I can assure you firing always caused casualties but fire factors of infantry stands were usually low enough that it was rare to kill things with random missile fire.

Massed bowfire and/or Artillery was a different matter.

Killing things by driving them back with missile fire was always interesting because players often forgot it was possible.

I always liked the way WMx dealt with missile fire as normally inconvenient but occasionally deadly, which seemed about right to me.

[Bodvoc]

Another vote for Impetus, have a look at basic Impetus which is free, impetus is the same game system, just more developed.

[Bloodaxe]

Warmaster Ancients for big games and DBA 3.0 for small ones at the moment.

What's DBA?

I only played Warmaster fantasy,  not Ancients.  Was it very difficult to destroy units with missiles then, not impossible? You were pushed back or disrupted? I guess it doesn't matter it was a long time ago. I just didn't like that missile fire didn't have a large effect.

[Ithoriel]

Each to their own but real missile fire tends not to have a large effect.

DBA - De Bellis Antiquitatis is a fast play set of ancients rules where each army consists of 12 bases or elements with enough figures to show what it represents. Cheap to build armies so ideal if on a budget, small surface required so ideal if space is as limited as budget, quick to play so ideal if you are both cash and time poor!

Latest version is a huge hardback which bumps the price up quite a bit.

It includes huge numbers of army lists for armies, some or many of which you'll never have heard of, and a list of their historical opponents which makes it tempting to collect several of those relatively cheap armies.