What are some good Ancients Wargaming rules?

[Bloodaxe]

Thanks for all the great advice & info.

[toxicpixie]

I'd suggest Impetus as well - I really like DBA but not so much DBM (the "many units" larger version) but even so I reckon Impetus is a better game. And Basic Impetus is a free download with just as many lists on the dadi & piombo site

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello Bloodaxe

Other options to consider are:-

Rally Round the King - written originally for Fantasy but has Ancient Army lists etc. By Two Hour Wargames, so readily available in hard copy for you. Main page here http://www.twohourwargames.com/rally-round-the-king.html. Local Campaign system and sample Historical army lists here http://site.twohourwargames.com/Updates/HistoricalSamplerComplete.pdf. Free Asian Army lists for download here http://www.twohourwargames.com/rarokiasarli.html Great for solo or cooperative play. They have a free set of rules for download http://www.twohourwargames.com/chrefive.html which show their reaction system.

You specifically mentioned Romans so you might want to have a look at Avgvstvs to Avrelian in the Too Fat Lardies stable. Introduction form author here http://www.philhendry.me.uk/avgvstvs-to-avrelian/the-avgvstvs-to-avrelian/welcome.html Available from here http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22 pdf or tablet versions only but you might have a local printing shop that could do this for you.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Sandinista]

WRG 6th Edition

I preferred 5th Edition to be fair, a simpler and quicker game

Cheers
Ian

[Bloodaxe]

I think I may actually have a few Warmaster Ancients books somewhere in a box. I should dig them out.

I'm going to look around at the rules you have mentioned, find some reviews, maybe some sample games to see how it plays.

[toxicpixie]

See http://www.dadiepiombo.it/images/stories/dp/impetus2.html for Impetus incl free Basic rules, army lists etc

[Malbork]

I'd go with Fenton's suggestion of Armati. It's old now but still gives a reasonable game and can be up and downscaled, so you can start playing a DBA-like game with just a few bases and then build up to larger things, if that's what you want.

That said, I'm also now looking at BAsic Impetus, having wtached some interesting youtube clips explaining its workings.

[Leman]

Why go for a reasonable game when you can go for a really good one.

[mollinary]

And now for something completely different  . You might consider, particularly for the period you mention, using the Commands and Colors Ancients board game, and replacing the blocks with figures. I had not wargamed Ancients for 30years, but CCA got me back into it, and I had so much fun, that I now have 6mm (sorry Leon   ) armies numbering thousands. It is simple to learn, hard to master, and the Epic version gives great games even for one player a side.  

Mollinary

[Luddite]

Hi Bloodaxe,

Polemos/SPQR

The Polemos stable of rules aren't for me.  They contain some decent ideas, but the rules are poorly executed and clunky.

Hail Caesar

Basically Rick Priestly's rewrite of the Warmaster rules after GW dropped them.
They are 'loose' in terms of play style and rules, with 'gentlemanly conduct' being required.  They do however give a decent game.
The books are pricey, with about 20% of the pages covering the rules and the remaining 80% being the obligatory eye-candy filler.

Impetus

Too fiddly for me.

To the Strongest

Never played them, sorry.


My recommendations would be:

DBM - its the fully realised 'De Bellis' ancients game.  Be warned though these are 'love/hate' rules and a lot of people hate them - I'm in the 'love them'.  DBM dominant global ancients tournament ruleset for many years.  
They are 'geometric', and a weird mix of grand tactical and micromanagement.
But they allow for a great deal of army list customisation, and reward tactical play (particularly flanking moves).
You will be looking at 70-90 'elements' (40mm wide units) with typically 2-4 figures on each base.
The rules are a small booklet, and the armies are contained in 4 similar 'army books'.  For Rome you'll need Book 2.  I'd advise simply getting all 4 books - they contain everything you'll ever need for ever ancient army from 3000BC-1500AD.
My personal rating: 9/10

There's a DBMM version, but it's inferior to DBM as it adds in all manner of unnecessary complications.
My personal rating: 4/10

DBA is the simpler, smaller scale sister rules to DBM.  Version 3 was recently released and are a great improvement on the previous version (while changing very little!)  At its base, it's played with 12 elements (units), but you can play it as a 'big battle' version with more flexibility and more troops.  BB-DBA is a good compromise between DBA and DBM.
DBA has the advantage of containing all the rules and every army list from 3000BC-1500AD in the one book.
My personal rating: 8/10

l'Art de la Guerre.  I recently played a game of this originally French game.  It's clearly a mash-up of DBM and Field of Glory.  It was quite an interesting game although the rules drafting (and translation from French) made a few situations difficult to resolve.  The rules are also poorly laid out.  However, it gives you all the rules and army lists you'll need and might be worth a go.
My personal rating: ?/10 - not played it enough, but from the early experiences 5/10

Field of Glory.  This killed off DBM as the default tournament ruleset.  It's very popular but in my view far more fiddly than DBx, and requires you to remember some weird and obscure combat factors.  Also, the best result on your d6 rolls is usually '5'.  
I played FoG for about 2 years and then in the middle of one game, I just sort of woke up and thought, 'this game just ain't fun'.  Never played it since.
Investing in the game you'll be looking at buying the rules and about 16 army books (although if its Rome you want you can probably cover your bases with one or two of those books).
My personal rating: 0/10

Warmaster Ancients.  Its a decent game, although for me, it gets a bit lost when it comes to multiple melees.  For some reason it's always felt to me that the ancients version doesn't quite work as well as the fantasy version.  Still well worth a go though.
My personal rating: 7/10

Warhammer Ancients Battles.  Now then, this is based on earlier versions of GWs Warhammer Fantasy rules.  It has all the same quirks that GW rules share, but if you come from a GW background this might be a good transitional game into ancients.  The core rules give you two armies (Rome and Gaul if I recall), and it makes for an OK game (if you like the GW rules concepts).
Though written with 28mm figures in mind, it can easily be played with 10mm figures (simply put 'X' 10mm figs on the figure base rather than 1 28mm figure!)
My personal rating: 5/10

[Malbork]

Leman wrote: .

Why go for a reasonable game when you can go for a really good one.

fair point and one of the reasons I'm investigating Impetus. I like Aramti but there's soemthign lacking, at least for me.

[toxicpixie]

Been a long while since I played Armati and I remember being a bit unimpressed. Wouldn't touch FoG with a bargepole now, DBM is way fiddly and faffy and never seems to give a great game, Polemos rules had some nice touches but a lot of effort for negligible gain, Warmaster Ancients seems ok, Warhammer Ancients and similar just ain't my cup of tea (not interested in single figure casualty removal these days!), and the newer ones I haven't yet tried.

Impetus was simple, plays well, gives good period feel (although we don't match up ahistorical forces, which always helps!) and was easy to pick up. I would recommend DBA at the drop of a hat though, if the new rules weren't so expensive!

[Leman]

Only ever played DBA to version 2.1, but I like it a lot, building armies is inexpensive and it plays well to a definite conclusion in a reasonable time. this is a great way to get into Ancients, right up to early Renaissance.

Impetus has been my favourite set since it first appeared. Admittedly I play most of my games in the Italian Wars period, but I have also played Barons War, 100 Years War and Roman invasion of Britain using them. They do require some markers to record deterioration of troops through the battle, disorder and troops on opportunity (I now use MDF markers and casualty figures). The designation of troops is also in shorthand Italian (as these are an Italian set), the author stating that this then gives a worldwide system so players from around the world will be familiar with the terms. However many of these designations are like English in reverse, eg CL Cavalleri Legiere (I think), which is LC Light Cavalry in English. I got the hang of this in my first game. The rules are now supported by their own downloadable magazine.

Never played Armati but one of my regular opponents used to play them and says there are some interesting concepts in them.

DBM - hated them. Played them about three times and it just felt like playing chess - which you can buy off the shelf and play immediately.

Field of Glory - what an enormous rip-off - even Osprey have dropped them now. Without a doubt, in 50 years of wargaming, the worst, least enjoyable game I have ever played - half a game then went home in disgust and immediately sold my copy.

The only other rules I have played and enjoyed in the pre-gunpowder period are Dan Mersey's Glutter of Ravens, which has now been updated to Dux Bellorum, and Two Fat Lardies' Dux Britanniarum. Two quite different games covering the same period. Bothe are enormous fun and both cope with very Late Roman Britain.

[Redstef]

Although they don't seem popular here, I have never had a bad game using  Sword and Spear. Quick to learn, a result in 3 hours and in my opinion jolly good fun what what

[Malbork]

Just for nostalgia, last year I dragged out Don Featherstone's Wargame book and had myself a little bash using what I think are Tony Bath's orginal rules.

Perhaps not so realistic, but provided a fun game in about 2 hours - Roamns v Dacians (wholme I hadn't heard of when I bought the book!).

Predictably the Romans won, it being nigh on impossible for half-naked savages to score a hit on a fully armed pilum-wielding chap.