Selling pdfs in Europe

[getagrip]

Well I think its because no really takes it very seriously. Its a forum about Tiny Fighting Men. What is there to be serious about?

I take it seriously; this is a serious forum after all.

[Leon]

As I am a customer at Wargames Vault, yesterday I recognised, that your rules are available there. Today I read this topic, and then I thought, I give it a try.

And it still works, I payed via paypal. Then downloaded them afterwards. I bought two other PDF's in January, and that worked as well.

Wargame Vault are outside the EU, so fortunately they don't have to mess about with any of the EU-based VAT nonsense.

[Last Hussar]

Rich doesn't mention the VAT., he just states they must send pdfs manually.

The States have the same sort of thing - I remember being intrigued by the TSR and Avalon hill catalogues in the 80s from import games.  They were aimed at US customers, and so had things like 'customers in Illinois must add sales tax'.

[Leon]

Rich doesn't mention the VAT., he just states they must send pdfs manually.

He's not stated it's the VAT, but that's the reason behind it all.  I was chatting with him about it at the York show a few weeks back.

[Luddite]

As someone who spends his time dealing with EU & UK privacy law, this particular VAT thing is utterly baffling.  the EU is driving towards something called the Eu Digital Economy...essentially harmonising everything financial and commercial across the EU member states - making trade across borders easier.

I can only presume that the particular muppet that drew up this VAT idea didn't get the memo...

[Leon]

As someone who spends his time dealing with EU & UK privacy law, this particular VAT thing is utterly baffling.  the EU is driving towards something called the Eu Digital Economy...essentially harmonising everything financial and commercial across the EU member states - making trade across borders easier.

I can only presume that the particular muppet that drew up this VAT idea didn't get the memo...

It's even worse potentially, as the rumour at the moment is that they're considering bringing in the same legislation for physical goods as well...    Having to do all the paperwork for submitting VAT returns to every country we've sold something to would be an absolute nightmare.  The government have a VATMoss system on their website to 'help' you with the current pdf paperwork, but it requires a lot more recording/data on every sale and requires a complete overhaul on most standard shopping cart systems.

[getagrip]

It's even worse potentially, as the rumour at the moment is that they're considering bringing in the same legislation for physical goods as well...    Having to do all the paperwork for submitting VAT returns to every country we've sold something to would be an absolute nightmare.  The government have a VATMoss system on their website to 'help' you with the current pdf paperwork, but it requires a lot more recording/data on every sale and requires a complete overhaul on most standard shopping cart systems.

How to cripple "free trade".

Bloody idiots

[Last Hussar]

Ah - I see now (did a Bing on VATMoss).

I can see why they are doing it. Amazon technically sell you stuff from the Channel Islands, which has 0 (I think) VAT (or at least very low).  This means they can undercut British based sellers by about 16%.  Its a similar thing to Google routing all its business through Ireland for Corporation Tax. (I've just checked a couple of things I saw today against Amazon - Amazon are about 10% cheaper before P&P).  VAT is about 17% of all Government income, so they can't get into a bidding war with tax havens.

[fred.]

What LH has posted makes sense.

But there really needs to be a minimum cut off, where vendors with a turnover overseas of less than £50k or something can be exempt, otherwise it is just crazy book keeping. The hassle of having to keep VAT records is bad enough, but having to do that for 30+ EU countries 

[Last Hussar]

Yes - Small businesses already do not need to be VAT registered if there turnover is below a certain amount.

I think it would be worth checking the rules:  This sort of thing is the meat of most trade agreements, not the headlines in the papers.

[Westmarcher]

Apparently, you must register for VAT if
- your VAT taxable turnover is more than £81,000 (the 'threshold') in a 12 month period.
- you receive goods in the UK from the EU worth more than £81,000.
- you expect to go over the threshold in a single 30 day period.

[Leon]

The trouble is that the VAT threshold for selling these digital products is £0, so everyone doing so is affected.  The logical way to do it would be to have the same or similar £81,000 threshold, but it looks like nobody fancied doing that.

There's a load of other annoying facets to the legislation as well.  One example is that all companies using the HMRC VATMoss system must keep two separate pieces of evidence of every customers location, to prove that they've applied the correct VAT rate for that sale.  Also, as you're keeping these records, you have to register as a data controller with the ICO and pay them a £35 fee every year... 

There's more info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-46-2014-vat-rule-change-and-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop-additional-guidance/revenue-and-customs-brief-46-2014-vat-rule-change-and-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop-additional-guidance

[andys]

Well as long as you're keeping busloads of civil servants in "useful" employment, I can't see what the problem is.


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