English Grammar

[Subedai]

Read Shakespeare with a massive deep Black Country accent. It makes much more sense

Nothing makes sense in A Black Country dialect, massive or otherwise. Most of the time when I worked in Walsall I needed an interpreter!

On the other side of the coin, whenever Some of the club in Kingstanding went anywhere south of the Watford Gap, I acted as spokesman so the locals wouldn't rip them off as being first cousins to foreigners.  

@Leman, totally agree about Shakespeare, it's completely wasted on the young. We had to read Julius Caesar for our mock 'O' Levels and Macbeth for the real exam. Taking into consideration that I had been a member of a library since the age of five and was an avid reader at that age, i still couldn't make any sense of them in the classroom, possibly because they were plays and not novels. It was only after I saw both of them performed by professional actors on the big screen that I could get my head around the language. Still can't see what use it is in the modern world though. Again, I agree with your statement about the correlation between reading, writing and by association, spelling.

@geteagrip, agree with you as well. Without trying to provoke a political discussion on how successive governments have steadily eroded any semblance of education in this country, I have watched as subject after subject has been watered down or removed completely from the syllabus. It borders on the criminal.

Can anyone pppllleeeaaassseee explain the usefulness of quadratic equations? Even after leaving school nearly 45 years ago I have never, ever found them to be useful! The sad thing is I could still recognise one when my daughter was doing maths at school.

[Techno]

@geteagrip, agree with you as well. Without trying to provoke a political discussion on how successive governments have steadily eroded any semblance of education in this country, I have watched as subject after subject has been watered down or removed completely from the syllabus. It borders on the criminal.

Totally agree.
Cheers - Phil

[Fenton]

I still get weird looks when doing maths as I do subtraction starting from the left...I think it was a one year experiment

[toxicpixie]

Nothing makes sense in A Black Country dialect, massive or otherwise. Most of the time when I worked in Walsall I needed an interpreter!

On the other side of the coin, whenever Some of the club in Kingstanding went anywhere south of the Watford Gap, I acted as spokesman so the locals wouldn't rip them off as being first cousins to foreigners.  

I've lived here far too many years and it's still a mystery! Or should that be "arrr yam a merstererery, bab"

The Kingstanding Club members aren't even very broad! Well, in accent terms, anyway

I enjoyed Shakespeare when read at school age and watched in the theatre, damn sight better than most of the tripe on the syllabus.

[DanJ]

A sentence have to be screwed pretty bad before they gets to where you doesn't knows the meaning what it must of meant to had.

This is true in a small example but when trying to communicate clearly the importance of grammar and spelling becomes far more important.  If poor grammar and spelling makes it difficult for your readers to understand your message then at the very least you're going to annoy them, possibly confuse them and maybe cause them to stop reading.

A case in point is the famous 'Barkeresque' style of rule writing with multiple sub-clauses in long sentences; at best it can be amusing, mostly annoying and sometimes infuriating and if that's the result then the writer has failed in his primary goal of communicating ideas.

As for Shakespeare his language is simply four hundred years removed from us, Shakespeare wrote to be performed not read in a class and a performance puts the words into context.  When we read Shakespeare we find many of the words are different and the idioms he uses are often strange to us.  For instance when Banquo asks what the night is like a modern English man might say, "very dark, there's not even any starts out, but Shakespeare says "There is husbandry in Heaven; Their candles are all out".  

The modern English version is accurate and informative but unexciting.  The Shakespearian version is poetic and full of delightful symbolism and metaphor but one which we have to work at to get the fullest understanding from.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Shakespeare should be listened to, or as a second best watched. It is just about unintelligible when read. Listened rather than watched as the is much more stimulating.

IanS

[getagrip]

Shakespeare should be listened to, or as a second best watched.

IanS

Both together for me otherwise it's just pretentious garbage.

And yes I love Shakespeare and yes I teach it!

It is NOT however a pre-requisite for a happy and successful life as a bricklayer (or any other worthy and useful employment that actually produces stuff) so, if there are people who never experience and or like it:

So bloody what?

Rant over

[Chad]

I always found that schools tried to over analyse Shakespeare, which makes it boring to read. After all the plays were for the enjoyment of the masses; 16th century cinema if you like. They should be watched and enjoyed for what they are.

By the way if you think a Brummie accent is bad, the pure Potteries dialect is almost incomprehensible to a non-Stokie. This was why we were taught elocution in our first year at high school.

Chad

[getagrip]

I always found that schools tried to over analyse Shakespeare, which makes it boring to read. After all the plays were for the enjoyment of the masses; 16th century cinema if you like. They should be watched and enjoyed for what they are.

Beautifully put!

[Westmarcher]

For instance when Banquo asks what the night is like a modern English man might say, "very dark, there's not even any starts out, but Shakespeare says "There is husbandry in Heaven; Their candles are all out".  

Would someone please clarify.
Are we talking about stars, starts or tarts?


That he is mad, 'tis true. Tis true, 'tis pity,. And pity 'tis 'tis true.

[getagrip]

Would someone please clarify.
Are we talking about stars, starts or tarts?


That he is mad, 'tis true. Tis true, 'tis pity,. And pity 'tis 'tis true.

Stars!!!

"Thou art like one of those fellows that, when he enters the confines of a tavern, claps me his sword upon the table and says "God send me no need of thee!" and, by the operation of the second cup, draws it on the drawer when indeed there is no need."

[Westmarcher]

Pity ('tis 'tis true, etc.).
It was getting interesting.



.... sorry, more interesting!

[fsn]

I remember an English teacher saying to us "what  was Shakespeare trying to achieve here?"

My answer - on the line of he was a jobbing playwright with a homicidal regent, so was trying to get bums on seats whilst not irritating the authorities - was not well received.

[Roy]

Can Shakespeare be translated into Nepali?  

while i'm on the subject... Google keeps telling me that it should be spelt; Shakspear (when I wrote it above) and, on this line, Shakespeare.
If a bloody computer can't figure out the English language, what hope is there for the rest of us!

[getagrip]

I remember an English teacher saying to us "what  was Shakespeare trying to achieve here?"

My answer - on the line of he was a jobbing playwright with a homicidal regent, so was trying to get bums on seats whilst not irritating the authorities - was not well received.

I love answers like that

Bloody accurate too