GW Half-year Report

[Techno]

That's what usually happens, isn't it ?
Cheers - Phil

[petercooman]

Thread got me thinking, I looked this up. www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9597.45.html

We are an ageing bunch, are new players coming through from GW?

All at my club are over 40, the next nearest club is mostly under 40 but apart from GW, Saga and similar fantasy/SF skirmish games (mainly unpainted figures too), no figure games are played it's all boardgames, cards or RPG.

Too much to invest in a wargames army in terms of cost and time for a lot of the instant gratification generation.

Cheers
Ian

I am 29 and started with 40k 2nd edition and fantasy 5th edition when i was 12. I now play blitzkrieg commander, axis and allies war at sea, do acw gaming, napoleonics, and a myriad of board and card games.I just (read 2 days ago) bought d&d's castle ravenloft and wrath of ashardon, and bought a boatload of new x wing stuff.

I never got the satisfaction i was looking for from playing gw only. So broadening the spectrum was a no-brainer.

Actually i had been painting airfix and revell minis and constructing plastic tank models since i was 9, and stopped doing that because i started 'the hobby'. So you can actually say that gw didn't lead me to historical wargaming, but took me away from it for many years.

It was just more accesible at the time. After gw it became mage knight for me, and then magic, wich was also widely available. After that i hopped into the lord of the rings, again by gw, just because i like LOTR so much (and i still find it one of the best games they produced). 

Although i must admit, being a youngster, i didn't have the means to buy into 10 different 'settings'/systems like i do know, so that might have been a factor too.

[toxicpixie]

Techno - sadly, yes. And the directors will go onto bigger and better and loot the saleable rains whilst the guys actually working will get a P45 and Workfare :/

Peter - I think GW scored by having an excellent "one stop shop" - models, paints, a background, opponents, somewhere to play all in one easy package ON THE HIGH STREET. Now, the advent of the net, forums and social media and other manufacturers "touring" indie shops with their varying degrees of "all in one" games/settings has rather dented that. Ok, there might not be a Mantic store on your small town high street but a quick pop to the website and here's a bunch of players and games in easy reach, loads of army info, and all the ancillary info you want or need, job done.

[petercooman]

Peter - I think GW scored by having an excellent "one stop shop" - models, paints, a background, opponents, somewhere to play all in one easy package ON THE HIGH STREET. Now, the advent of the net, forums and social media and other manufacturers "touring" indie shops with their varying degrees of "all in one" games/settings has rather dented that. Ok, there might not be a Mantic store on your small town high street but a quick pop to the website and here's a bunch of players and games in easy reach, loads of army info, and all the ancillary info you want or need, job done.

Indeed! Also, in mantics case, they offer free shipping if you buy at least 30£ worth, so the 'having to mail order things' is not so bad when you don't pay shipping.

Gw used to offer free shipping starting at 15£ as far as i know, but recently they changed that to 40£ so most of their big kits just about fall out of 'free shipping' as they are around 33 to 37£  (like the screaming bell, coven throne ,zombie dragon etc..), buying elsewhere starts to look more and more economical for the customurs.

[toxicpixie]

That's cutting their nose off to spite their face - sounds like a good revenue based decision, but will drive down sales in the long term. This is why we shouldn't let directors and sales and marketing people run companies

[petercooman]

Indeed, last week i was snooping about their website, as i wanted to get a box of the empire free company. I still was used to their 20€=free shipping police, so was actually considering getting a box (30€) to make some skirmish guys for Song of blade and heroes skirmish.

Seeing the change in the minimum amount to buy for free postage i didn't even bother. So it really affects sales. Maybe not the sales from the 'hardcore' buyers, but guys like me who just want to pick something up to use for a different setting search for cheaper options instead. If i buy about the same amount with mantic, i get:

A) more models (40 men at arms for 34,99 instead of 20 militia for 30+7 shipping)
free shipping
C) mantic points that i can save for free stuff

So if you are on a tight budget like me, that really matters!

[skywalker]

I was inducted into wargaming at Senior school way back when "Flares" were in fashion the first time round, playing historical, I kept this up until at the age of 18 other intrests came into my life, rock music, cars, women and the occassional pint or 2. GW got me back into the hobby about 19 years ago and I did enjoy the back ground, games systems and miniatures. About 5 or 6 years ago a few members of our club, Redcar Ironbeards, started to get fed up with the way they (GW) were mucking about with the rules so we ventured out into the wider world of Wargaming. Now nobody in our club plays GW but we still play a bit of sci-fi by playing X-Wing.
I am not suprised the GW profits are down as they 1/ no longer own the monopoly of great games, 2/ have cheesed off a lot of us wrinkly gamers and 3/ the constant rule/codex changes have priced themselves out of the market.

Don't get me wrong they still make some cracking miniatures but nowadays I might buy the odd one to paint rather than spending all my monthly gaming budget on GW toys...........their loss is someone elses gain

Long live the smaller manufactures 

[Maenoferren]

After this thread opened I had a mooch at the GW site last night... flippin heck prices are somewhat higher than they used to be. I loved their Lord of the rings figures and use them in my One Ring games, however the fact the Wargs have changed as have the goblins into the hobbit put me off getting them (Not GW's fault though).
I had been looking at Perry plastics...36 figures for £20 and then GW...10 for £25 or whatever... A battalion of Ratty things £60, with no command or heavy weapons...zoiks

[Luddite]

My club is repleat with 'veterans', 'bitter enders', 'grognards', and 'greybeards'.

A couple of years ago, by chance i found myself gaming with a group of younger chaps (and chapesses), and so i have some insight perhaps into this idea of GW being the 'gateway company' into historical gaming.

So the chaps play mostly 40k/WFB, although they also had invested in Warmahordes.

So anyway, i introduced them to the club, and to other forms of games, including historicals.  They're now members, and are building their Bolt Action armies (small steps).  They're also keen on Dystopian Wars, and have played a variety of other games i've foisted on them.

So, there were two main points they made:

1.  They had no idea there were other forms of wargame other than GW - and certainly not the huge range and choice.

2.  The simple fact is, you play the games you can find opponents for.  Everyone they knew played GW, so they played GW.

For me, i think, therefore its for the other companies to step up.  If GW is on the decline, there's a 'youth' market to be picked up.  Warlord seem to be doing it with Bolt Action.

There's also something to be said for the (how many?) wargames clubs around the country to get in on the act.  In that regard, GW 'dominates' the hobby world simply by virtue of being organised.  We don't (as far as i'm aware) have any sort of national wargames organisations.  Its a Heath Robinson, garden shed hobby.  *Shrug*

Are players going to get some sort of 'federation' together?  Nope.  Maybe?  The virtual community of the interweb has certainly brought the hobby participants together more than they've ever been, but beyond that...?

I think perhaps the wargames companies might be able to do something along those lines, but they're generally similarly fractious with the added complication of being commercial competitors.

[Ithoriel]

For me, i think, therefore its for the other companies to step up.  If GW is on the decline, there's a 'youth' market to be picked up.  Warlord seem to be doing it with Bolt Action.

There's also something to be said for the (how many?) wargames clubs around the country to get in on the act.  In that regard, GW 'dominates' the hobby world simply by virtue of being organised.  We don't (as far as i'm aware) have any sort of national wargames organisations.  Its a Heath Robinson, garden shed hobby.  *Shrug*

Are players going to get some sort of 'federation' together?  Nope.  Maybe?  The virtual community of the interweb has certainly brought the hobby participants together more than they've ever been, but beyond that...?

I think perhaps the wargames companies might be able to do something along those lines, but they're generally similarly fractious with the added complication of being commercial competitors.

BRIAN: Are you Games Workshop?
REG: F**k off!
BRIAN: What?
REG: Games Workshop! We're Warlord Games! Games Workshop! Cawk.
FRANCIS: W***ers.
BRIAN: Can I... join your group?
REG: No. Piss off.
BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate Games Workshop as much as anybody.
GAMERS: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.
REG: Stumm.
JUDITH: Are you sure?
BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Games Workshop already.
REG: Listen. If you wanted to play Warlord Games, you'd have to really hate Games Workshop.
BRIAN: I do!
REG: Oh, yeah? How much?
BRIAN: A lot!
REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than Games Workshop are f**king Mantic Games.
GAMERS: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
GAMERS: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And Battlefront.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And Warlord Games.
GAMERS: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: Warlord Games. Splitters!
REG: WE'RE Warlord Games!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were Pendraken.
REG: Pendraken! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to Pendraken, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
GAMERS: Splitter!

[Luddite]

 

[toxicpixie]

 

Aren't we the Peoples Front of Pendraken? Or are we the Pendraken Peoples Front?

[Ithoriel]

We are the Pendraken Popular Front!

[toxicpixie]

Splitters! We hate them worse than anyone!

[DanJ]

Games Workshop, what did they ever do for us?

Nothin!!!

Apart from Warmaster